With the announcement of Dragon Gate USA and his heavy involvement, it seemed like a good time to talk with Gabe about the upcoming project. He also discussed his experiences with other Japanese promotions.
Interview Background
Gabe Sapolsky broke into the business in ECW. Though he wasn’t part of the creative process, he learned a tremendous amount about how to run a show. During that time he also worked with RF Video, which did ‘fan cam’ versions of ECW’s shows. When ECW closed, Gabe worked full-time with RF. A year later ROH opened with Gabe as the booker. Gabe stayed on through the 2004 scandal that forced RF out of ROH, and he remained there until late last year when he and owner Cary Silken had a falling out over their conflicting visions for the company.
During the six and a half years he worked for ROH, Gabe Sapolsky had the opportunity to work directly and indirectly with just about every significant promotion in Japan. As such it made sense for him to become one of the key people behind Dragon Gate’s attempt to break into the US market. Dragon Gate, which also had a falling out with ROH last year, will be running several shows per year using a mix of Dragon Gate wrestlers and US independent workers. The debut show will be on July 25th at the venue formerly known as the ECW Arena in Philadelphia.
Dragon Gate in ROH
In 2005, Dragon Gate asked ROH if they would be interested in working together. Since ROH’s focus was on athletic wrestling there was no hesitation in accepting the offer. The first show in the relationship, “Dragon Gate Invasionâ€, took place in Buffalo. The reason for this, as opposed to a bigger market like New York or Chicago, is because that was when the wrestlers were available. The real breakthrough came on the trio of 2006 ROH shows during Wrestlemania Weekend, especially the 6-man tag on March 31st that won the Wrestling Observer Match of the Year award. I asked Gabe if he was surprised by the tremendous response to the match, and he said “no†because it was exactly the style of wrestling ROH fans loved.
While CIMA was the face of Dragon Gate, the wrestler who spent the most time stateside was Shingo Takagi. Shingo didn’t make much of a splash in ROH, and Gabe explained that early on he suffered a hand injury that lingered for most of his stay. As a result Shingo wasn’t able to perform on the level he was capable of. Shingo’s biggest match in ROH was a title shot against Morishima of NOAH, highlighted by Shingo pulling off some impressive moves on a much larger opponent. I asked if Dragon Gate was okay with having their wrestler put over someone from NOAH, and Gabe turned it around by saying that the match had been requested by Dragon Gate. Since Shingo was a junior heavyweight there was nothing to lose from a Japanese perspective; unless the match was totally one-sided he would look good in simply being competitive. Shingo did quite well for himself after returning to Japan, and he’s currently poised to be a long-term star in the company.
Another young star from Dragon Gate who showed up in ROH is YAMATO. At the time he was just a rookie, and while he demonstrated plenty of athletic ability he didn’t have much in the way of personality. Since then he became arguably the most charismatic wrestler in Dragon Gate, and as of now is the top heel. Thus he’s likely to be a force in Dragon Gate USA as well.
Dragon Gate USA
The venture got some high praise right away in the form of this article by Paul Heyman, who Gabe worked for in ECW. Heyman sees an upcoming promotional rivalry between ROH and Dragon Gate USA over the hardcore wrestling fans who were the backbone of ECW. Gabe loved it, saying that the analogies demonstrated Heyman’s “genius†for the business. Heyman says that these are “boutique†promotions, trying to cater to dedicated fans in a particular niche rather than try to surpass WWE. Gabe also used the word “boutiqueâ€, a word that’s commonly associated with beauty salons but is exactly correct in this instance.
When I asked about the goals and strategy behind the launch of Dragon Gate USA, Sapolsky expanded on this. Dragon Gate sees itself as a “premium†product, the sort that will appeal to fans who follow pro wrestling extensively and on the internet. They don’t plan any sort of broad advertising or television show, but rather (like ROH) will rely on word-of-mouth. “True fans will find usâ€. Casual wrestling fans want “television stars†and are accustomed to verbal battles, neither of which Dragon Gate can offer. As such the shows will be heavy on wrestling and very light on angles. Events in Dragon Gate will affect the Dragon Gate USA cards, as opposed to attempting to make it self-contained. Oh, and Gabe won’t be doing commentary.
The main revenue stream will be DVD sales, with live gate and merchandise being secondary. In a related note, the Dragon Gate show in Los Angeles last year is currently in production for DVD release (I would assume in time for the Philly show). The LA show was done in conjunction with PWG, and that relationship isn’t affected by the start of DG USA.
Wrestlers announced so far are CIMA, Dragon Kid, Doi, Yoshino, Scorpio, the Jacksons (PWG), and an 8-man tag from CHIKARA. More have been lined up, and the release of names will be staggered in order to keep the company in the news during long breaks between events. Gabe emphasized that they don’t want to hype their announcements, but just stick to the facts and let the talent speak for itself. In addition to news, the website
has feature articles from people in the company and Jae of the Dragon Gate USA fan site. Merchandise and multimedia content are in the works as well.
The next Dragon Gate USA event will be Labor Day weekend in Chicago.
Working with other Japanese promotions
Influence
Gabe was exposed to Japanese wrestling in the early ‘90s, and was a big fan of All Japan’s heavyweights and New Japan’s juniors. He remembers being blown away by 1994’s Super J Cup. The influence of Japan is very evident in how he booked ROH, though he wasn’t able to borrow all the elements. For instance he was a big fan of All Japan’s 6-man tags, yet that sort of thing was rare in ROH. The main reason is that a 6-man tag with a significant amount of talent, especially fly-ins, would cost too much to do regularly on an independent budget. Also ROH’s roster has always been on the smaller end of the scale, and the 6-man element is better suited for heavyweights.
ECW
ECW worked with FMW and Michinoku Pro. Gabe didn’t interact with the promotions themselves, but he did spend time with the likes of Tajiri and Masato Tanaka. He described them as being laid-back and fun on the road.
Zero-One
ROH started out with an easy tie to Japan: Steve Corino, who was a regular in Zero-One. This led to an ROH appearance by Tanaka, Ohtani and Hidaka in 2002. After that ROH tried several times to get Tanaka, but were always told he was busy. It’s worth mentioning that Tanaka is very active with Japanese independents on top of his Zero-One commitments, so “he’s busy†isn’t a cop-out.
All Japan
The next big Japan crossover was Final Battle 2003, where several members of All Japan (including Mutoh) faced off with ROH wrestlers. All Japan had scheduled themselves for a trip to the US and ROH gladly agreed to play host for them on one of the nights. There wasn’t any further activity between the companies. Gabe said that there wouldn’t be significant repeat interest in most of the All Japan roster, though they did try to get Kojima to return.
New Japan
The “in†for New Japan was Samoa Joe, who was part of New Japan’s LA Dojo. Gabe asked Joe to find out how much it would cost for ROH to get Jushin Liger. Joe got the number and thought it was very high, but Gabe didn’t blink because he felt ticket and DVD sales would cover it. That turned out to be the case, as the November 2004 “Weekend of Thunder†turned a nice profit. Liger was “fantastic†and did everything he was asked to do, including a long interview.
Sadly that was the only positive of the relationship. In June of 2004, New Japan covertly offered Joe thousands of dollars to lose the ROH title to Shinya Makabe. Joe turned them down, and Gabe believes that act contributed to New Japan’s baffling decision to never use Joe in Japan. Then in April of 2005, ROH was set to host an 8-man “Best of American Super Juniors†tournament, with the winner getting a spot in the Japanese iteration of the tournament. The plan had been for American Dragon or James Gibson to win, since both had some tours of New Japan under their belt. New Japan suddenly changed the plan and made ROH put over Kendo Kashin (under the name Dragon Soldier B). Kendo’s style wasn’t a good fit for ROH (to put it mildly) and it diminished the quality and importance of the show. After that the companies parted ways. Kashin didn’t even wind up in New Japan’s junior tournament, though he did get a pin over Kawada in the G-1 Climax.
NOAH
Easily the most complicated of all the initial contacts. Gabe heard that Kobashi would be going to Harley Race’s wrestling school to help teach Harley’s students (part of the NOAH/WLW relationship). He reached out to Harley and asked if ROH could bring in Kobashi. Harley blew him off, not taking the offer seriously. Eventually Gabe was able to get Ace Steel, who had ties to WLW, to convince Harley that ROH was on the level. Harley facilitated the contact between NOAH and ROH and the rest was history. Kobashi got even more money for his appearances than Liger, but like Liger he paid for himself and then some. Sadly he was diagnosed with cancer the following spring, and Gabe said that Kobashi doesn’t want to return to the US unless he can perform at the same level he did in his match with Samoa Joe. That’s why Kobashi hasn’t been back in the states despite what I can assume is a strong desire for him to return.
In early 2007 ROH took a risk and put the title on Takeshi Morishima in just his second ROH match. There was a backlash as fans felt NOAH was getting preferential treatment at the expense of ROH mainstay Homicide, but Gabe felt that Homicide’s story was as a challenger rather than a champion. The next week Morishima headlined NOAH’s Nippon Budokan show against KENTA in front of 10,000 people, by far the largest crowd for an ROH title match. This didn’t alter ROH’s plans at all, but rather was a pleasant surprise when NOAH asked for permission to use the belt. Although Morishima’s reign got off to a slow start, Gabe is satisfied with the momentum that built. Midcard wrestlers like Claudio Castagnoli and Brent Albright were able to get huge reactions from nearfalls on Morishima, elevating them even in defeat. The reign ended just the way Gabe planned, with Nigel McGuinness pinning Morishima.
Overall thoughts on working with Japanese promotions & final thoughts
Gabe feels that in general they have the same qualities. The relationships are based on trust, respect and good business. Once that’s established, they’re loyal. It’s worth noting that in the main anomaly, New Japan and ROH, the companies hadn’t really worked together enough to establish that sort of trust.
Gabe Sapolsky’s closing words are to visit DGUSA.TV and please support the product. The first three rows for the debut show sold out very quickly, so if you want to watch Dragon Gate in the middle of scenic (my word not Gabe’s) Philadelphia you’ll need to act fast.
