Continuity is a frequent topic of discussion with fans of the comic book genre. Continuity wasn’t a really big problem in the 40’s and 50’s, most issues were all-inclusive, and the characters didn’t change all that much from month to month. The watershed event though was Gardner Fox’s story “Flash of Two Worlds,” in the pages of Flash #123. This event changed the way comics were read. From this point on, each year stories became more complex and the past was taken more into account.
Near Mint Memories is a weekly column written by John Babos, Nick Piers, and myself, Chris Delloiacono. The columns are normally written individually, but this is our first chance to come together and share our combined memories.
As will be a custom for our monthly “Roundtable”, we’ve invited a very special guest to join us. This month, I’m happy to introduce our guest, none other than the Dark Overlord himself, Daron Kappauff. One moment please…I’m sorry I’ve just received word that the monthly beatings are running overtime, and our glorious leader will not be here to impart his wisdom. Oh well, at least our floggings will be delayed!
THE ROUNDTABLE
Chris: Howdy, gentlemen!
Nick: Huzzah!
Chris: Order, order in this court!
Nick: Okay, I want a ham sandwich!
John: Steak, please!
Chris: So we’re here to talk about continuity, and all the good and the bad it brings. The most obvious place to begin is with…
CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS
Chris: What I want to know is did it help or hurt? Did it ruin comics, or save them?
Nick: I’d probably say help. They cleared it up so people weren’t confused and thinking “Well geez, there’s Superman over here, but then there’s this Superman with the grey hair. And what’s up with the other Batman being older?”
Chris: But don’t you think cramming the JSA, JLA, the former Quality Comics characters, and the Fawcett gang in one universe watered things down?
Nick: They rebooted and made everything quite clear and left out a lot of the cheesiness like the Super Pets.
John: It helped and hurt. It streamlined an increasingly complicated “multi-verse” of alternate Earths, but also tossed much of the past into the waste bin. The new universe was accessible to new readers, but all the established continuity went out with the bath water.
Nick: They did mess up the history of the JLA. Batman/Superman were never part of the team, and they made the JSA as the older guys that fought in the war. I honestly love that aspect more than an alternate universe.
Chris: My biggest problem was so many comics I read as a kid no longer “counted”.
Nick: And I love that quote in JSA after the “Return of Hawkman.” “Everyone looks up to the JLA, but the JLA, the Titans and all the others? They look up to us.”
Chris: DC has taken great pains, especially the work of David Goyer and Geoff Johns on JSA, to make the group the epitome of what a super team should be.
John: What I like about the Crisis was that it was a built-in in-continuity explanation for a revamp of the DCU.
Chris: I agree. This is one of the only “mega” events that didn’t seem contrived. It was planned for three years, I believe, and the work shows in the finished product.
Nick: There were some heroes and villains that hurt from Crisis, though. Braniac went from the badass ex-computer from Krypton to a lame psychic guy. Then there was Hawkman. Nuff said.
John: Crisis tried to respect long-time readers, but bring in new. Whether it succeeded is another issue.
Chris: All right, how about the most continuity challenged character ever…
HAWKMAN
John: Brrrr.
Nick: Well, I don’t have a lot of knowledge of how convoluted Hawkman is, but as far as I know, they kept “rebooting” him with this “new Hawkman” and “new direction” but none of them sold. Kind of like all the different Manhunters.
John: Geoff Johns has done some good in cleaning up Hawkman (dis)continuity.
Nick: It made great sense. He didn’t forget a single bit of continuity, but embraced it. He simply said, “Well shucks, they’re all past lives. The guy’s Egyptian, so he’s reincarnated”
John: Again, in-continuity explanation for a revamp, within the pages of the JSA.
Nick: It was one of those, “Simple, but brilliant” moments.
Chris: I think that’s a big reason why Geoff Johns is so highly regarded in the industry, and thus his books sell. He cares about continuity, but isn’t a slave to it.
John: Hawkman has for many years been a property no one wanted to touch.
Nick: Aquaman was like that until Peter David got a hold of him.
Chris: It shows characters can be fixed, so to speak.
Chris: So another big question is, should DC move towards…
ULTIMATIZATION
Nick: It works for Marvel very well, but I don’t think it would work with DC. Er…at least a second time. Technically, Crisis was their “Ultimatization.”
Chris: It was, but that was twenty years ago. So isn’t it about time to start everything over again?
Nick: They could…but I don’t know. It’s one of those “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” instances. The difference is that Marvel is still pumping out their regular universe titles as well as Ultimate.
John: I’ve not been a fan of ongoing multiple-universe type books from a creative standpoint, but diversity and different voices can either dilute an existing franchise or successfully bring in new readers.
Nick: Yep. If you want a DC reboot, I’d say stick with the TV and movies.
Chris: I think the Ultimate books work well to bring Marvel’s “movie” inspired work to the printed page. But I’m not sure if more young people, or new readers necessarily read these books. Is it just a case that Spidey and X-Men fans will buy almost anything?
Nick: I’ll get in trouble for this, but you ever notice you don’t hear about “DC Zombies”?
John: What troubles me about the Ultimate books is that they are considered to be rooted in the “real world”, and are very “dark”, and display a pessimistic view of existing society.
Chris: Definitely a problem. Not just the Ultimate books though, the whole Marvel Universe is moving towards realism. Don’t they understand that these are supposed to be Superhero books?
Nick: My issue is, it reminds me too much of the “Worked at first, flopped in the end,” Heroes Reborn. They’re doing the fast telling of 50 years of continuity.
Chris: Yup. By moving through things so fast, they’re cheapening the storytelling.
Nick: That’s not to say that the writing isn’t great, because it is. But (SPOILER!) they killed off Captain Stacy so early into the Ultimate Spidey run and didn’t build him up to make us like him like Lee did for years on Amazing.
THE ENEMY
Chris: I’d like to give you guys a chance to take the discussion in a new direction. Nick, who do you think is the biggest enemy to continuity?
Nick: I’d say fans who can’t decide which way to go.
Chris: You got it. The fans are largely the cause of the mess of continuity. Goes back to the demand for all those stories with the JLA and JSA meetings in the 60’s. Now who’s the biggest enemy as far as writers go?
Nick: Probably John Byrne for taking away a lot of warmth from Superman’s past; or at least the warmth of Krypton.
John: Eddie Berganza, DCU’s current Superman editor.
Chris: I know what you’ve got stuck in your craw, John.
SUPERMAN: BIRTHRIGHT
John: It’s revamping the Superman franchise and not explaining the “why” in-continuity.
Nick: I can’t comment on Birthright. I’m waiting for the trade. I’m such a TPB bitch.
Chris: Don’t you trust Mark Waid to do a fair revamp, then the new all-star teams to flesh things out next year?
Nick: Then we’re just going back to the original revamp by Byrne. He said, “Okay folks, here’s how it is now, I’m taking this title, you guys get the rest.”
John: There may be an in-continuity explanation of these revamps and perhaps the inconsistent application of “Super-history” in the DCU. i.e. The Kansas Sightings, reference to the Man of Steel Krypton, and references in Superman/Batman to the Birthright Krypton. (See newsarama piece on the upcoming Superman #200 and the “Futuresmiths”). So, Eddie Berganza may have redeemed himself.
Chris: Waid’s comment with regard to the changes in Birthright was along the lines of, “do you like the story?” Then enjoy it. Thoughts?
John: My position on Birthright is that it’s an interesting read. I understand the need to make Superman accessible to the Smallville TV crowd. I just think there should be an in-continuity explanation for the story. To be fair, the “essence” of Superman is captured by Waid.
Nick: And again, I say, why does it have to be rewritten? They just need more concise, down to earth stories about who Superman is.
Chris: Getting a little off topic, but I agree with you, Nick. One of the best Superman stories I’ve ever read was in Hitman #34. It’s just Tommy and Supes on the roof talking, but it got to the heart of who Superman is.
Nick: You know, I’m one of the biggest Superman fans around, and I hate Smallville.
Chris: I liked it for a while, but it just seemed like the same thing every week. So I never watched after the first season.
Nick: I can’t stand the “Monster of the week” feeling the show has. It works fine with Buffy/Angel, but not Superman.
John: But, Smallville is successful. DC should be trying to get those fans interested in comics. Just don’t forget about your long-time readers. Try to respect older readers and bring in new readers too. It doesn’t need to be a trade-off.
Nick: Someone wake me when they turn the show into Metropolis (As in, when he wears the outfit and stuff).
Chris: So what’s more important, a great story that may forget about continuity, or a decent story that respects continuity?
IS IT ALL ABOUT GEOFF JOHNS?
John: There doesn’t need to be trade-off. Good story or continuity. I say it can be both. Just look at what Geoff Johns has done.
Nick: That’s always been the problem, though. Look at the biggest schmoz of “Bring new fans in,” the Kyle Green Lantern, and the crucifying of Hal Jordan.
John: A lot of writers that forget about continuity, use the “good story” argument, which assumes that all stories that are continuity-respectful just suck. That I totally disagree with.
Nick: I’m really torn on that, to be honest. There’s some that forget about continuity that are just plain awesome (the Ultimate titles), but there can be greatness with continuity (Flash, JSA…anything with Geoff Johns).
Chris: That goes back to one of our earliest points. Geoff Johns can do it all.
Nick: Okay, we’ll just admit it now, guys. We’re all Geoff Johns acolytes.
John: I’m the Chief Waterbuffalo of the Geoff Johns Admiration Society.
Chris: I’ll be second fiddle, if possible.
John: Chris, you’re no one’s second fiddle. Maybe 10th.
Chris: Story of my life.
Nick: I can’t be a part of the Geoff Johns Admiration Society. I’m a Greg Rucka Acolyte.
Chris: Rucka’s Wonder Woman is so good, that it actually frightens me.
Nick: Yeah really. The last time I cared about WW was in JLA: Heaven’s Ladder. And Rucka on Adventures of Superman is just…just…excuse me. I have to go to the bathroom.
Chris: But what about Geoff’s current changes to the Flash mythos?
Nick: The current movement will be temporary…I think. There are too many things that Flash has affected with the open identity.
John: Flash is another example of an in-continuity retooling of the franchise. It has piqued my interest.
Chris: The close of issue 200 was amazing, I absolutely loved seeing Barry Allen and Hal Jordan together with Wally again. Yet, while I enjoyed the first issue of the new direction, I have reservations about the changes. Though like Nick said, I don’t think the changes will be permanent.
John: Marvel may have something when it comes to their multiple universes – their mainstream universe, MAX, Ultimate, Epic…They have the best of all worlds. While creatively I may not like them, from a marketing perspective it works.
Nick: Yeah, I’m just waiting for the Ultimate Dazzler! Or Ultimate…wait, what was the name of the living cartoon guy?
Chris: So that brings up the point of DC’s…
ELSEWORLDS
Nick: I used to love Elseworlds. But sometimes too much of a good thing is too much.
Chris: DC’s been doing this stuff for years, but they’ve never built on them. Just single issues. Where Marvel just starts a new continuity any time they feel the urge.
John: However, that’s the beauty of Elseworlds. You don’t need a major understanding of continuity to enjoy it. Same with Marvel’s alternate comic book lines.
Chris: Yet, Geoff Johns made Teen Titans extremely approachable. That’s why I think it’s a success. Proving you don’t need to run away from continuity for your book to work.
Nick: The problem Marvel is finding is when they want to merge those working titles in other continuities. Like pretty much any of the MAX titles.
John: However, to bring this debate full circle…..The intro of Hypertime in the DCU allows for the existence of alternate timelines / worlds. So Crisis has been undone somewhat – not just one universe.
HYPERTIME
Chris: But DC hasn’t done enough with Hypertime. Perhaps with Waid and Grant Morrison back in the fold, we’ll finally get a great Hypertime story that pulls things together.
Nick: Hypertime still has the potential to be fun. The Superboy story was fun for what it was (light and didn’t change anything in our universe). Flash (or Dark Flash) was neat, but confusing for many (like me). I think Marvel seems to think that continuity can’t exist for them to have success. And yet, Morrison is doing some awesome work on New X-Men without ignoring a thing.
Chris: Is the problem with comics, that people like me continue to ask for things to be pulled together?
John: Yes…Just kidding.
Nick: DC, on the other hand, is starting to realize that continuity can be embraced and still have success…as long as it’s written by Geoff Johns.
Chris: Oddly enough, I love to read those stories that bring all the convolution together. Yet, in the grand scheme, I really don’t live and die by continuity.
Nick: If I was to say that I loved continuity and hated any that ignored it, I’d be a hypocrite. I love the Ultimate titles.
Chris: The biggest thing I look for when I read, is good quality stories. I’ll let continuity slide for a great story, but not for a bad story.
John: Continuity and good stories aren’t mutually exclusive. You can have a good “in-continuity” story.
UNTIL NEXT TIME
Chris: I think we all agreed too much on this topic. Some good stuff, but not really enough bloodletting.
Nick: Not this time.
John: As long as you all agree that I’m right, we’ll be fine.
Chris: Well, thanks for the time guys.
John: See ya
Nick: Later all!
THE READING RACK:
Due to space constraints, I’ll forego mentioning anything this week, as a deluge of information was presented above. If nothing else, just try something new!
NEXT COLUMN:
Well, that’s it for this week. Be sure to check out our next column, as John Babos brings you the first of two parts dedicated to the event we seem to mention every week, the Crisis On Infinite Earths.
