What follows is the conversation that Evocator Manes challenged me to. It is pretty much unedited, and full of typos (mostly from me.) Enjoy.-mathan
Evocator Manes: Ok, champ. Let’s get this party started.
Mathboogie: Ok.
Mathboogie: What do we disagree about?
Evocator Manes: LOL
Evocator Manes: It’s snowing here….I believe we were
discussing a certain word and how it is ok for people of a certain color to use it and not ok for another.
Evocator Manes: Your attitude is that whites being restricted from saying nigger is not a racist viewpoint, yes?
Mathboogie: Snowing? I’ve got my window open and a nice breeze flowing in. Whites shouldn’t be able to say it. That’s all. I never said anyone else should be able to say it. At least I don’t think I did. Let me check.
Mathboogie: It’s not racist.
Evocator Manes: This: When a white person says those six letters the message received it “Black, less than me.†When to Blacks use the word the message is “Black, just like me.â€
Evocator Manes: This would seem like you condoning the use.
Evocator Manes: Let’s back up a step.
Evocator Manes: How is that not racist?
Mathboogie: That is just saying that that is how the message recieved. I’m not saying that it’s ok, or that I condone it.
Evocator Manes: Other than the obvious that there is no “white” race, nor a “black” one, either, but ignoring that social omission for right now, I am curious. It seems a remarkably inconsistent message to
me.
Mathboogie: Saying whites can’t say a word isn’t racist, unless I say that everyone else can. I’m just making a point. Like this. Cursing is frowned upon. But cursing at your mother in church is really frowned upon. There are levels.
Evocator Manes: Ok, so which is it? No one can say it or everyone can?
Mathboogie: No one should say it. But whites can’t say it.
Evocator Manes: By which indicates that it is ok for the non-white sector of the planet to say it.
Evocator Manes: Maybe not ok, but in your view, carrying no repurcussions if they do.
Mathboogie: There are certain circumstances when there is a gray area. But for whites its pretty much black and white.
Evocator Manes: So Asians, Islanders, Latinos, etc. can run around willy nilly yelling nigger at the top of their lungs, which is tolerable and one white kid repeats a lyric off of a wide variety of any hip-hop CD and the kid touches off a riot?
Evocator Manes: Ok, so how is it not racist to divide the world into two separate factions, the grays, which have full latitude to use racial slurs and the white sector, which does not?
Evocator Manes: I realize this is a very common viewpoint, but I have never understood it. It seems very directly counter to equality.
Mathboogie: Like I said no one should say it. Especially around me, because I’ll call them on it. It’s not racist because of history. There is too much history between Blacks and whites with that word.
Evocator Manes: You are discounting entire countries which had nothing to do with the history I am guessing you’re referring to.
Evocator Manes: So, is equality right out the window? Whites in America can keep the power as long as the black kids in the streets can keep nigger?
Mathboogie: Other races don’t have the perceived power that whites. What I’m saying is that the word is a link to a past that shouldn’t be forgotten. The minute they are allowed to use it then all is forgotten. And forgiven.
Evocator Manes: How about the idea that the word is a weapon and the more weapons you remove from the powers you are fighting, the more effective you can be?
Mathboogie: What countries am I discounting?
Evocator Manes: Further, I don’t see how that is going to make anyone forget, if whites run around using nigger. They will sound like dumb, ignorant old slave owners if they try to use that outdated word.
One of the emails brought up an interesting point on nigger vs. nigga.
Evocator Manes: Whites shouldn’t attempt either because they cannot say it with the correct inflection, even if they mean one vs. the other. But I will never say they are forbidden from trying, dumb
as it makes them sound.
Evocator Manes: You are discounting nearly all of the Scandanavian countries, for starters.
Mathboogie: I didn’t want to get into the “a” vs “er.” I thought it would confuse the issue. Whites might think “I dropped the “er” so all should be cool.” The word is still the same.
Evocator Manes: I don’t recall Ireland or Scotland being too big on slavery, either. Matter of fact, the Irish went through many similar types of things in America, with the obvious difference being that they
were not drug from their homes, but rather left them willingly.
Evocator Manes: Whites can’t say muthaf*cka, nigga, anything along those lines correctly, even if they are very careful. Enunciation is a critical aspect of language, particularly in Asian, French and
Spanish, just off the top of my head. The intricacies can be quite pronounced.
Evocator Manes: It is doubtful anyone is going to forget the Holocaust and as far as America, as long as race relations are as shitty as they are now, no one is inclined to forget any of that history either.
Mathboogie: Yeah, and I wouldn’t use an Irish slur to one of them. It’s a matter of respect. If you know what a word means, and where it comes from, why would you want to use it?
Evocator Manes: Matter of fact, race relations will never progress until that cloud is dealt with, by both sides.
Evocator Manes: Ok, why would you want to use it? I don’t know. I use words that convey the meaning I choose, usually and I never mean to address anyone as any of those things when they are clearly not
those things. Yet, you have that shit becoming prevalent in hip hop/rap.
Mathboogie: Whites want to forget it. “It happened so long ago get over it” or “I never owned slaves†and “the world is different now” are all that I hear from them. It frustrates me so much because they think that just because slavery is over that it doesn’t affect the
present. How can someone be that blind?
Evocator Manes: When Nina Simone dropped that word, she used it to convey all the fury, hatred and fire that her heart held regarding it. When she used it, it had meaning and she chose it because it was the ugliest thing she could think of. Rappers do not put that much thought into it.
Evocator Manes: If anyone is saying that it’s all over, when we had huge race relation problems through the 60s, even as recent as the LA riots, then they are clearly not being realistic.
Mathboogie: Rappers don’t, I will give you that. That is why I’m afraid it’s getting watered down. I don’t want it to get accepted. It’s use should be toned down. No one should use it. But I do accept the fact that it is used in the Black community. I even accept Boriqua’s using it. But I will never accept whites using it.
Evocator Manes: As far as how long ago it happened, since it is still affecting things, I’d say it still counts. It has yet to be addressed. Yes, it is unfair that whites whose families emigrated after slavery was over and had to struggle their lives toiling the soil or
whatever, scraping by, have to be held accountable for something they didn’t do, but it damn sure wasn’t fair when they filled the boats with entire families, with death breaking them up right and left and dumping
them in a country that they had never heart of, either.
Evocator Manes: I’ll be honest. I don’t accept anyone using it, quite frankly. It is abhorrent behavior, quite frankly nauseating.
Mathboogie: I really don’t understand how some whites can really believe that slavery was just that, and had no lasting affects. I guess they don’t understand what it’s like to be Black in America.
Evocator Manes: I don’t want to fight them, but they take several steps down in my view, when they use the word prolifically, unless they use it like Nina did.
Evocator Manes: The situation for blacks is not so much improved. Racism just can’t be as overt now, it has to sneak and skulk around, but that son of a bitch is still around.
Evocator Manes: I think we, the civilized, intelligent people of the planet, are going to have to lead by example. We have to demonstrate that we are not ignorant and part of that lesson is to not use the brandisments of ignorance ourselves.
Mathboogie: That word is part of the hood. It is how people refer to each other. It’s sad, but you get used to it and even use it yourself, I know I did.
Evocator Manes: There is no good reason to use nigger, outside of the context of demonstrating ugliness, such as the aforementioned Nina example and she did it very very rarely.
Evocator Manes: That’s what I mean. That particular dumbass cycle must be broken. Having the word around and addressing people is very negative reinforcement.
Mathboogie: I’m all about leading by example. But you can’t alienate a segment by saying that a word that they use is wrong. You can’t reach people like that. But leading by example is the way to
go.
Evocator Manes: If someone calls you nigger constantly, particularly when you’re young, some part of you will believe it and when you get old enough to truly realize what that means, you are set back, handicapped and have to work harder to make up that
ground.
Evocator Manes: I’m glad to hear you say this: “But you can’t alienate a segment by saying that a word that they use is wrong.”, but I will again point out that your message is that whites are excluded.
Evocator Manes: The answer is not to drag whites back and attempt to make them slaves. It won’t work, for one thing. The answer is to move the world, starting with this country, starting with states
and cities, starting with you, into equality and the way to do that is not by stating contradictory messages or outright biased messages.
Evocator Manes: Maybe equality is nothing but a dream that can never happen. I don’t know, but I do know that no one has ever tried and I think we have the best shot at it right now. It seems a
pity to waste it.
Evocator Manes: Here’s something interesting. No matter how low down the blues get, how often do you hear a black artist using nigger?
Evocator Manes: In the blues?
Mathboogie: Ok I will say this; I’m Black. I don’t really care abou the white community. They have enough people looking out for their welfare and interests. I don’t care about offending them or their sensibilities. I live in their world, and watch their television. For the most part I am not really trying to reach them. The ones that need to be reached, won’t listen, and those that
listen don’t need to be reached.
Evocator Manes: It’s funny that you talk about alienation and how you would like to avoid it, then put up a paragraph like that.
Evocator Manes: If everyone is going to be in this together, we have to be in this together.
Evocator Manes: If whites decide to have a similar viewpoint, where does that leave you, me, we, us? Out in the cold again? No, this is about educating the masses. Whites, let’s face it, are more in a position to enact positive change towards equality.
Evocator Manes: What do you think the motivation of the rappers and other high users of nigger/nigga is?
Evocator Manes: Like J-Lo. Why would
she choose that word?
Mathboogie: Alienation, is something that I have gotten used to. I’ve gone to Latino schools in Arizona, I went to White School in Iowa, I went to a Black School in Baltimore. I think I’ve seen a lot. But that doesn’t mean I like what I’ve seen.
Mathboogie: In defense of J-Lo (my favorite Fly Girl ask my high school chums) she didn’t choose it. Ja Rule wrote the song. She just uttered it.
Evocator Manes: So? You don’t like alienation, no one does. But directly stating that you don’t care about someone begins it. I realize we are in the age of selfishness, which also won’t help things.
Evocator Manes: Ok, what was Ja Rule’s motivation, then?
Mathboogie: Laziness. It is a commonly used word in the hood. It takes much more effort to think of a synonym, believe me. I finally decided on “cat” and “dude.”
Evocator Manes: I knew a rap group that started from the ground up out here. Every time they used that word, I asked them what for? They never could explain, I’m not even sure they directly realized it themselves, until one day, one of them said that it was what was selling and then I got it. They wanted to be like everyone else to, equal in the eyes of the record buying and concert attending public.
Evocator Manes: It does? Does it rhyme particularly well, do you suppose?
Evocator Manes: Is laziness a good reason to use that particularly charged word?
Mathboogie: It doesn’t rhyme well, but it sounds damn authentic. And it isn’t really a charged word in that context or from those lips.
Evocator Manes: Let’s say a white person used that word inadvertently to you, maybe directly stating some line from a movie or something. Before you tried to strike them, would you ask them why they
used it?
Evocator Manes: “but it sounds damn authentic. And it isn’t really a charged word in that context or from those lips. ”
Evocator Manes: Mathan, this is bullshit. It sounds authentic what? Dumb? Ignorant? Shuffling? Stupid? It is either a charged word or it isn’t.
Mathboogie: I wouldn’t ask them. I would say “don’t ever say that word around me again.” That’s it. I don’t care why they said it.
Evocator Manes: What if they forgot and said it around you again?
Mathboogie: I’m not saying it’s authentic. I guess I meant “authentic.” (I’m new to the net game.)
Mathboogie: If they forgot, the they get pulled up, and given the third degree. It happens a third time, the get a lesson on “Black Rage.”
Evocator Manes: Do you not see it as an inevitable effect, though?
Mathboogie: What is the effect?
Evocator Manes: The white kids are assimilating/imitating “black” culture, as it is currently fed to them through hip hop rap the NBA, etc.
Evocator Manes: That is going to have to the next logical step after the clothing and the sagging….the language will come also.
Evocator Manes: That’s another stupid thing. The slovenly sagging trend. What the f*ck is that all about? Yay, I have pants several sizes too big for me on….?
Mathboogie: Yeah, it do see it. I had a white guy that I worked with in Baltimore that said it just like that. I told him that maybe his homies let him get away with it, but I wasn’t cool with that. It was tense, but we ended up respecting each other. He stopped saying it
around me.
Evocator Manes: How many fights can you get into or are you just going to insulate yourself from whites permanently?
Mathboogie: As a slim guy I actually like baggy clothes. Fitting stuff I find constricting. I need my space. I’ve got to breathe. Plus didn’t you just lose some weight; I’m betting your clothes aren’t as snug as they used to be.
Evocator Manes: They don’t come down half off my ass. I don’t have to keep hitching them up every 5 seconds. I actually had to buy some new stuff….
Evocator Manes: I found it annoying to have to keep adjusting my clothing and it kept restricting my movement and made me look like a slob.
Mathboogie: It is a stupid trend, but hardly new. I blame Kris Kross, everything can be blamed on rap music.
Evocator Manes: I’ve had to do your thing before. Somebody calls me nigger, I usually grab their hand or something and look right into their eyes and say, “I’m not your nigger.” Then I repeat it. Clarity, I find, is important.
Evocator Manes: I will not allow people to refer to me as either ignorant (which is what they must mean by nigger as I am not lazy or shiftless) or slovenly.
Evocator Manes: Rap used to be a mirror of society and, at one time, of black culture, but money has ruined it.
Mathboogie: See, if someone is trying to insult me, I remain calm. I don’t flip. I try not to give people what they want. But if it comes out casually I’m much more offended. Happily that hasn’t happened too often.
Mathboogie: Money has ruined it. Now it is a cartoon of Black folk, almost like Amos and Andy.
Evocator Manes: I’m not particularly offended because I know what I am not. They can use whatever word around me as much as they want, but there are certain words NO ONE can use directed at me.
Evocator Manes: Yeah, rap is now the Sugar Pops of the music world. It is empty and meaningless, sadly. A few out there are still being relevant or trying to be, Talib Kweli, KRS and a few others
but none of the new shit. It’s all this dumbass bling bling shit.
Mathboogie: See I never used the word until I went to a Black University. That was when I saw things in a different light.
Evocator Manes: Ignorance is catchy. Most people do not think before they speak, so having a word like nigger around is not a good idea. If people became pariahs to the degree that they would be if they
went around calling each other pedophiles, it would go a good way to stamping that out.
Evocator Manes: Ok, this different light, lay it down.
Mathboogie: It’s like it really was used commonly among the students. We all used it. It was in the music we listened to. No one had a problem with it. It was actually that “term of endearment” you hear about so often.
Evocator Manes: Until whites get into the picture?
Evocator Manes: Is it fair to say attitudes are the problem? For instance, if I think that all Mexicans are scumbags, but don’t run around calling them any names, is that worse than a white using nigger instead of brother in a term of endearment and camaraderie?
Mathboogie: Yeah. Basically. It is the one thing that we have that can’t be taken from us. Rap has been corrupted, Rock and Roll stolen. Jazz, Kenny G-ified. The N word as a greeting is the one thing that Blacks can do that Whites can’t take. Can’t we have one
thing. (But still I don’t like it.)
Evocator Manes: What is this can’t we have one thing shit? Who is we? I don’t want that word. There are a lot of things I would rather have and the blues, are those corrupted also?
Evocator Manes: How about sports? Those old ass whites that were scared if blacks ever got on the golf fairways were dead on. Look at Tiger.
Evocator Manes: How do you answer a white that points out black athletic domination?
Mathboogie: Your mind is your own, I can’t change that. But that word has way too much baggage coming from a white mouth. Both are hate. Clearly your inner workings are beyond me, but the fact that white disregards the history of a word is very offensive.
Evocator Manes: Why keep that word? Why not go take something else instead and stamp it? What about soul food?
Evocator Manes: What about a white who immigrates?
Evocator Manes: The inner workings of my mind are devoted to justice and fairness and equality to the point where it fits. I have no problem conceding that women are better at some things than men, that certain races are better at certain things than others. No point in
ignoring genetics.
Mathboogie: Soul Food is leftovers from the Master’s house. My personal Soul Food is Mexican. Give me green corn tamales and I’m set. If a white talks about domination in sports, I would say “isn’t that what you bred us for during those years in slavery. And Cablinasian isn’t Black.
Evocator Manes: I am just saying that it seems silly to argue out of one side of the mouth about how much it sucks to be black in America (no argument there), yet the whole “keep this word away from the whites thing”, as if clinging to it gives some power or
something.
Mathboogie: I’m meant the comment about Mexicans, as to the inner working of your mind.
Evocator Manes: I don’t know about that soul food being leftovers, but if leftovers are ribs and greens and cornbread, I’ll take it anyday.
Evocator Manes: I used that as an example. I don’t hate any race.
Mathboogie: I know. I was just addressing
your example.
Evocator Manes: I think the ones that feel superiority of one race over another is truth are the dangerous ones, not some white imitating his ignorant rap hero or whatever.
Mathboogie: Whites shouldn’t want to say the word. If they do they have a problem. They don’t understand the legacy of the word, and clearly shouldn’t be around Blacks.
Evocator Manes: No one should want to say the word. If they do, they have a problem. It is called ignorance. They may understand the legacy of the word, yet are choosing to ignore it or pretend it means
something else. They clearly should not be around society.
Mathboogie: My best friend has a theory that behind closed doors whites say the word amongst themselves anyway.
Evocator Manes: Is there any particular reason that your friend has for this?
Evocator Manes: All whites are racist, I suppose.
Evocator Manes: Colorist might be more accurate.
Mathboogie: My thing is that the word needs to be stopped from becoming commonplace. I don’t want to see “I Love The 90’s on VH1” hear someone talking about “NIggas With Attitude” being the hardest
rap group out.
Evocator Manes: I think we agree here, though I would rather take it to the next step and let it die it’s ignoble death.
Mathboogie: He just thinks it’s part of American culture. That they aren’t taught any better. That they equate Blacks and Niggers. Which is why that whole Chris Rock Niggas Vs Niggers bit struck me as
wrong.
Evocator Manes: I don’t see a use for it anymore, except as a reminder of a very disgusting display of humanity’s worst in this country’s history.
Evocator Manes: I got what Rock was getting at and he seems dead on, mostly. As far as white folks doing that, I can’t speak for them, but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. I can’t see some
little old granny rocking and knitting somewhere, asking “could you please pass the tea†and “I hate niggers†to whoever happens to be around.
Mathboogie: But he was letting whites off the hook for whatever racist thoughts they had. He basically said, “it’s ok to hate Niggers.” But do people really differentiate between Blacks and Niggers? I don’t
think so. It’s like in “Do the Right Thing.” You are Black or more that Black.
Evocator Manes: To me, the problem is never going to be some whites running around imitating blacks who use nigger. It is going to be those who are actively trying to hold a people down.
Evocator Manes: I don’t buy all that shit. Black, more than Black, none of that. I don’t see his message as condoning hating blacks, either. I have spent a great deal of my life trying to see things in a logical manner and while everything does not always fit,
I still try to approach it scientifically.
Evocator Manes: As for Rock’s thing, I heard a lot of cats use very similar phrases. To them, there IS a difference.
Evocator Manes: Here’s something for you to chew on: It’s a matter of basic psychology. If you don’t want whites to use it, you have to make it unpalatable to them. They have to feel ashamed to use
it. You can’t just tell them no.
Evocator Manes: If you tell someone no, then you are just making them want to use it, maybe out of spite, even. You also can’t contradict yourself and then use it yourself.
Evocator Manes: When ever anyone told me I couldn’t have or do something, I tried to get it or do it. I’ve dated women of all colors, races, creeds and religions that I could find and I experienced more
prejudice than I care to remember. BUT, I tried to boil that away and get down to the heart of the matter, which is how you treat people. I like to think I’ve done my part and changed some minds.
Mathhboogie: Completely off topic; my roommate’s mom is in town and came over to straighten up. I had to do chores! I haven’t done chores since high school.
Evocator Manes: LOL
Evocator Manes: Chores….nice.
Evocator Manes: I haven’t even heard that word used except by some of my friends towards their kids.
Mathboogie: Back on topic. I shouldn’t have to make it taste funny. They should know it tastes funny. And I will go on record as saying it is 90% different. I’m not saying it’s ok, but there is a huge difference.
Evocator Manes: I don’t mean you personally, but everyone. I know white people who loathe that word. They get a look on their faces like they stepped ankle deep in shit when they hear anyone saying it.
Evocator Manes: Anyway, you can’t ignore basic psychology. Tell someone they can’t do or have something and they will want it more.
Evocator Manes: And you can’t beat up every white person who uses that word. It is more effective to move that word into the realm of undesirable, which it is for most whites I’ve encountered, actually.
Evocator Manes: Some of the young kids get confused by what they perceive as “black” culture, though and I definitely see why.
Evocator Manes: There are so many contradictory messages.
Mathboogie: That is true. That was wrong of me. But it should be taboo, an unwritten rule. I don’t care for the word, but I’m not going to look down my nose at some Black folks using it among themselves.
Evocator Manes: I look down my nose at anyone who I think is being intentionally ignorant, whether for show or not and that is how I view anyone who uses that word. I think it has been pretty much taboo until rap exploded and re-introduced the “new and unimproved” version of it.
Mathboogie: Whites really need to get over the “love of Black culture” thing.
Evocator Manes: I knew a brother from Denver who actively tried to get whites to use it, then had the big problem of having to beat their asses when they used it in the wrong context.
Evocator Manes: Yeah, but that is how whites work. There is no “white” culture to speak of. They just usurp, borrow and appropriate from everyone whatever they like or think is neat or will make them
money.
Evocator Manes: Whites also designated themselves more into association of the countries of their ancestors, whichever is most prominent, if they know.
Mathboogie: Whoa, that is going to get you some feedback!
Evocator Manes: I never said the truth was pretty or nice, just that I was always going to speak it.
Evocator Manes: And I defy anyone to prove me wrong.
Mathboogie: For the record I have never been in a fight, over anything. Especially over a word, no matter how powerful.
Evocator Manes: Anyway, it is not surprising that whites are latching onto the cool new “black culture” thing. I think they tried with disco, but the just couldn’t get it. It required their bodies to make moves they were not capable of. Rap does not require that. Anyone can smoke blunts and drink f*cking 40s.
Evocator Manes: Black athletes have been the heroes of white kids for a long, long time now.
Mathboogie: You forgot the glocks.
Evocator Manes: This is good, because it means they are seeing blacks as superior, at least in some ways. Kids always want to emulate people who are dramatically more proficient.
Evocator Manes: It is bad because now rap is providing them with some very bad examples. Yeah, the glocks….LOL
Mathboogie: Superior, what happened to equality?
Evocator Manes: Kids are generally not superior to anyone older than them, so that is not in their mindset.
Evocator Manes: They just know what they want to be “when they grow up”, so to speak.
Evocator Manes: Whether it be Reggie or Bo Jackson or Hank Aaron before them, or Levi Stubbs or whoever.
Mathboogie: Whites have always found Blacks “cool.” But eventually they grow up and get real jobs in the real world. It is a temporary thing. If things were going to get better they would have happenned when the boomers became the ruling class.
Evocator Manes: Equality comes when they see that whites and blacks are all playing the same game, on the same field and the blacks are emerging on top.
Evocator Manes: Things will get better when everyone sticks together. For every 1 step of progress, it seems like there are about 15 backwards.
Evocator Manes: Whites find blacks intimidating, mostly, it seems to me.
Mathboogie: Oh yeah, I love that. That is one of the best parts of being Black.
Evocator Manes: A lot of time, their reactions are based on this. Nearly all white slave owners were terrified of their slaves, so they overcompensated. It is unknown exactly why, though there may be
something to the psychology of colors. Darker hues just look naturally bigger physically, possibly…..
Mathboogie: Except when it comes to excessive force by officers of the law, or lynch mobs. But getting people to cross the street at night to get away from you, classic!
Evocator Manes: However, you can’t expect someone to hand you equality when they are afraid of you, so that is something that both sides have to get over.
Evocator Manes: I have had people leave rooms to get away from me, depending on my mood. Good times.
Mathboogie: Oh yeah. I like that I can do whatever I want with my hair, no one at work is going to call me on it.
Evocator Manes: LOL
Mathboogie: I used to rock the fro crazy large.
Evocator Manes: LOL Great. You’re restarting the trend….and I thought cornrows looked foolish….LOL
Evocator Manes: There are some definite physical advantages to every race, I think.
Mathboogie: I used to have those too. Long cornrows. But I get bored easily, and inevitably go back to bald.
Evocator Manes: I can’t say I think any of them are superior to another, which is why I never got on the superiority kick from earlier during the consciousness rap phase.
Evocator Manes: I would stick with bald, but it is far too much work.
Evocator Manes: I like to be able to trim it once a week and leave it.
Evocator Manes: The other thing coming up is that with the current crossbreeding going on, you can have a black father and a white chick and wind up with a white kid that looks like the father, as my friend recently had. Can he say nigger?
Mathboogie: I agree on the baldie, which is why I inevitably grow it out.
Evocator Manes: I think shaved heads intimidate people also.
Mathboogie: Well as a guy with a white mom and a Black pop, I guess it’s ok to say it.
Evocator Manes: This kid looks WHITE, though.
Evocator Manes: You would never know it by looking at him. He has f*cking red hair, for Crissakes.
Evocator Manes: And I guarantee if he says it, he gets his ass kicked most likely.
Evocator Manes: Or at least in a fight.
Mathboogie: That’s my ex. She had red hair. (excuse me while I sob uncontrollably.)
Evocator Manes: Yet, by the logic that it’s ok for blacks and not for whites, even though he has a black father, he goes down….
Evocator Manes: Red-haired chicks….yikes….LOL
Mathboogie: He shouldn’t use it for his safety, but technically I think he gets the pass.
Evocator Manes: Technically, that will be some very minor consolation. What if the next white cat you whup on has the same situation going on?
Evocator Manes: I know some would say he deserves it for his father being a sellout. Sins of the father, I suppose, though then that leaves the door open for whites to point out that they never owned slaves and all that line. Which will distract everyone from the whole
problem, which is blacks being treated still as second-class citizens, for the most part, never mind the past.
Mathboogie: I’ve never whuped on anyone. You know how homosexuals have gadar? Well my mixed folkar is money! I can tell who’s got something in them.
Evocator Manes: I’ve had to beat a few asses in my time. If you saw this kid, you would not think he was black. I didn’t at first and I knew the father AND grandfather.
Mathboogie: How old is the kid?
Evocator Manes: You can see his father in the kid’s face, but at initial glance, I thought he got the wrong kid from the hospital. LOL
Evocator Manes: He is 2 or something, maybe a bit older.
Mathboogie: Give him time. My sister looks completely different than she did at that age. I’m sure features will start to develop. And I bet I’ll give him the secret “halfie handshake.”
Evocator Manes: LOL
Evocator Manes: There are not so many purebloods left in the U.S. anymore, except for the imports, I imagine.
Mathboogie: Purebloods are hemophiliacs in Europe. Blacks are just Black. Mixed kids often end up mixed up. I don’t know how I feel about that.
Evocator Manes: Yeah, it looks like the one race thing will eventually get here, but not in any way which the Nazis had in mind. I guess this alone will bring about equality, as it will render all slurs pretty much meaningless.
Mathboogie: Eventually. But I’m sure some Aryan blood will stay relatively pure. Those guys are so stubborn.
Evocator Manes: German blood is tainted by several different European countries, so they are already “impure”. As I said before, it really doesn’t matter.
Evocator Manes: People need to emulate EM and all will be fine.
Mathboogie: I don’t get that deep. Like I said I am more concerned with the Black community.
Evocator Manes: I will say this, anyone who doesn’t at least sample as many different cultures and flavors as they can get their hands on is selling themselves short.
Evocator Manes: Well, once the barriers of Hollywood and politics are broken down, I think that will happen pretty quickly and there is some heavy banging on both doors.
Evocator Manes: Change always takes time and some stuff is happening very quickly, but a lot of negative things are going right along with it.
Mathboogie: I completely disagree with you on that. Those barriers aren’t going anywhere. At least not as long as Seth/Nemesis is around.
Evocator Manes: Seth Monroe is not responsible for any barriers outside of any he may or may not have. He may be symptomatic of a problem to many people, but he is not the lynchpin.
Mathboogie: What Hollywood barriers are dropping?
Evocator Manes: I didn’t say they are dropping. They are not. They must be battered down, but there is a pounding at the door and it is only a matter of time.
Evocator Manes: Some cats are ignoring Hollywood outright, like the rappers, who do the straight to video trip. In their own way, they are doing well, but their example is still too far negative for my taste.
Mathboogie: I don’t know. I’m not as optimistic as you are. I look at Black movies, which are getting better, but still contain cartoon cut outs.
Evocator Manes: Denzel is doing his part and so is Fishburne. Halle is sometimes, sometimes not, but I think the climate is slowly warming up and being more receptive.
Evocator Manes: It is inevitable.
Mathboogie: As a writer with dreams of Hollywood, I can say that they aren’t ready for my stories to be told. Fishburne, is that the Fishburne of Biker Boyz?
Evocator Manes: Unless people see blacks doing “normal white” shit, then the stereotype of superior athletics and little else will persist. Never mind that there have been just as many brilliant black
thinkers….if it ain’t publicized, the public just don’t know…
Evocator Manes: Lawrence Fishburne.
Evocator Manes: The public is too stupid to search things out on their own. Even me, who does literally tons of research, still find myself surprised when someone mentions a name I should know and I
don’t and I look it up and find that person was right and I am still a dumbf*ck compared to the level that I feel I must get to.
Mathboogie: Denzel gets good roles, and directed one movie. I don’t know how what barriers he’s breaking down. Yeah Lawrence Fishburne, from Biker Boyz, hardly a great Black role.
Evocator Manes: Look at his movies. He has done a lot of “message” movies and I feel changed a lot of minds with his quality. He has never wavered on his stance as a person, either.
Evocator Manes: Lawrence taking a bum movie is ok. It establishes him as “just another actor”, since they all do that, rather than “oh that black guy from The Matrix or Deep Cover.”
Evocator Manes: Lawrence also did his own movie….for HBO, forget the name….Always Outnumbered, Always Outgunned, which was all kinds of deep. Forest also, with the Strapped thing he did. I watched that in a room with about 10 different races and all of them had wet faces after that.
Evocator Manes: These guys appeal to people’s humanity and hearts instead of their minds, yet it is their minds that get changed.
Evocator Manes: Everything need not be on a high esoteric level.
Mathboogie: I have yet to see my Black experience on the screen. We are relegated to action movies and comedies. And comedies are for low characters. There aren’t Black tragedies or dramas. Because those are for high characters, above the audience.
Evocator Manes: I have not seen my experiences either. And what about Jason’s Lyric. If that wasn’t a black tragedy movie, what is?
Evocator Manes: It has to start somewhere, the Hollywood thing. Same with politics.
Mathboogie: I’m just tired of “hood movies” or their new cousins “shop” movies. Jason’s Lyric from a decade ago?
Evocator Manes: Yeah, that. Strapped was a black tragedy/drama also and one of the better ones, to my mind.
Evocator Manes: I am tired of those movies also. But then again, most of the movies out today are fluff, regardless.
Mathboogie: I guess. But the point is that nothing has happenned recently. We have been segregated to the comedy ghetto.
Evocator Manes: Indeed, but part of that is economics. Studios are not so willing to take chances on “iffy” projects right now, so unless they are somewhat sure it will be blockbuster, they are not so
ready to green-light stuff.
Mathboogie: Since we are talking about movies Quentin’s use of the N word bothers me. That is exactly what I’m talking about.
Evocator Manes: Quentin speaking it or saying it?
Evocator Manes: SHIT! I mean writing it or saying it?
Mathboogie: Writing it for white characters. Like in Pulp. Dead Nigger Storage? What’s up with that?
Evocator Manes: There becomes a fine line there. As a writer myself, if I want to establish an aspect of a character, I might assign that character some unsavory behavior, such as using inappropriate words. I can’t speak for Tarantino and I don’t really know, but I assume that is the rationale.
Mathboogie: That wasn’t “Nigga.” It wasn’t the term of affection. It was the slur. And Sam L Jackson took it. That is acting!
Evocator Manes: The whole purpose of acting is to create a world that is imaginary, but believable. In that context, I have less of a problem with the word.
Evocator Manes: If Tarantino constantly used it during interviews, I would have a pronounced problem with it. Making movies about the South during the times of rebellion,for instance, requires it.
Mathboogie: I’m a writer too, but the fact that Jimmy (the character) says it, and gets away with it, and we never find out how Jules feels about it is my problem. It is never addressed. And it should have been.
Evocator Manes: Ooooh, yeah, good point. You are dead on the money there.
Evocator Manes: That would be an easy thing to add in, also….I wonder if it just never occurred to them to put it in there.
Mathboogie: Probably not. I love the movie. I was watching it last week, but that scene made me cringe.
Evocator Manes: Yeah, it is a really great movie, no question. I have problems with scenes of other movies from an artistic point, so I completely get what you’re saying.
Mathboogie: Context is important, just like two Blacks saying it to each other.
Evocator Manes: I dunno. I never hear Asians calling each other gook or slant-eyes or Mexicans calling themselves spics or wetbacks or taco grinders or burrito benders or any of that. It seems ignorant to me to use as a part of everyday speech.
Evocator Manes: I don’t usually hear whites calling each other whitey or cracker, unless one of them has “adopted” black culture and has on an oversize UNC jersey or something.
Evocator Manes: Not that they look completely dopey in that or anything [eye rolling goes here].
Evocator Manes: I guess the next column will be answering all the assloads of mail you get over this one when it’s posted…..
Mathboogie: Comedy! What about women and bitch? Or homosexuals and their varitey of slurs?
Mathboogie: The next three columns, I’m guessing.
Evocator Manes: Again, let me reiterate for those viewing at home. EM will NOT answer questions on his race, other than to remind you that it does not matter and I will get this across to you, by
force of will, if need be.
Evocator Manes: The women inequality thing is a whole other can of worms. And as for the fags, I have no idea what sort of direction their deviance takes. They are deviant to begin with, so them slagging each other in some sort of dom-sub shitfest is something I am not really interested in entering a discussion about. I don’t see the comparison as valid at all.
Evocator Manes: I have not actually heard black chicks refer to themselves or other black chicks as bitches, hoes or cunts unless they are pissed and getting ready to scrap.
Mathboogie: So you want me to edit out the part about people calling you the N word? And come one, obviously this is a stance that a Black person would take, no white person worries about not being taken seriously. I deduced it, but then again I do read Batman comic books.
Evocator Manes: Nope. I don’t want you to edit anything.
Evocator Manes: I am not catching your meaning on the stance that a black person would take as opposed to oh, you mean the what race EM is thing?>
Evocator Manes: No, I just tend to get asked that question a lot. I have been called everything from a self-hating white to a self-hating black. LOL Sound familiar?
Evocator Manes: I have been referred to as nigger and a whole lot of other unsavory shit in 32 years. As I said, I know what I am not.
Mathboogie: I have heard women call each other slut, bitch, hoe, and whore, jokingly and as a greeting. “What’s up Hoe?” It looks odd, but it actually sounded natural. Strangely.
Evocator Manes: I hear white chicks doing that. Never black chicks.
Mathboogie: I guess technically I am a self hating white. Or at least half of me is. I think?
Evocator Manes: Sometimes Latino chicks, also. Never Asian chicks.
Evocator Manes: LOL
Evocator Manes: I am not self-hating at all.
Mathboogie: I gotta hang out with you, as you are clearly surrounded by chicks.
Evocator Manes: I would like people to address the issues, not me.
Evocator Manes: Not right now. I shuffled most of them off to the side.
Mathboogie: My point is women do the same thing. Sure the words may not have as much baggage as the N word. But some segments of the
population use slurs as terms of affection. So it isn’t just a Black thing.
Evocator Manes: I just notice certain tendencies of the females. I find the differences interesting. It simply never occurs to Asian chicks to use that kind of language, that I have ever seen, unless
they’re pissed.
Evocator Manes: They may be using slurs, but generally not racial slurs.
Mathboogie: But they are using slurs from an outsider, among themselves.
Evocator Manes: Not racial slurs.
Mathboogie: Sexual slurs. Plural. Blacks use one slur. Sure it’s the most powerful slur in the entire language, but it’s still only one.
Evocator Manes: It is the only racial slur I can think of used in that manner.
Evocator Manes: Maybe the motivation is to defang it and by you using it as a term of endearment, you are doing your part to assist.
Mathboogie: You want me to address nizzle or what?
Evocator Manes: That, yeah, so what do you think?
Mathboogie: I’m tired of the -izzle craze. But yeah that too is a no go. Hell, whites shouldn’t even say ninja around a Black person.
Evocator Manes: Not even NINJA? LOL
Evocator Manes: How about niggling, as in niggling details?
Mathboogie: Now there they are just trying to push buttons. No one says niggling. I hate when that happens.
Evocator Manes: How about niggardly?
Mathboogie: Again, more pushing of the buttons, like they are playing a video game. They shouldn’t say it because they are intentionally trying to provoke a response. But technically those words are ok.
Evocator Manes: Hmmmm, you’re not looking for ulterior motives, are you Batman?
Mathboogie: Look I’ve seen it happen. Some smug white dude showing off his vocab and the Black response to jump to conclusions. It is frustrating, but in the clear.
Evocator Manes: Do you think you personally might be hyper-sensitive…niggling has nothing to do with a racial slur.
Mathboogie: But who says niggling? I know the word because I’m an English guy, but it’s not in the average joe’s lexicon. The similarities to the slur are apparent, and a response is desired.
Evocator Manes: Ahhh, I know a couple anal guys who use it to demonstrate their superior vocabulary. You know the type.
Evocator Manes: Niggardly, on the other hand, is definitely not at all good.
Evocator Manes: I dunno, but I do know we have given anyone reading this a few things to think about. I hope.
Mathboogie: And probably a few things to write about too.
Evocator Manes: I hope so. I hope we spark some dialogue and get people thinking.
Mathboogie: Wow time flies when you discussing race via the internet.
Evocator Manes: This problem will not go away by people ignoring it, that’s for sure.
Evocator Manes: Yeah, this is like what, damn near 3 hours.
Mathboogie: Hopefully people will address the problem. And then we can have a day named after us. Hopefully without the hail of gunfire though.
Evocator Manes: Maybe next hot topic, we can move on to stereotypes and how EM is constantly working on trying to break them….but someone reads Batman comics and deduces everything….LOL
Evocator Manes: A day named after us, huh? LOL Sure, why not?
Mathboogie: Actually it sounds like a great novel for you to write. I’ll do the screenplay.
Evocator Manes: You can do the f*cking screenplay. I hate writing those.
Mathboogie: Great, the evil EM is back.
Evocator Manes: I did have an idea for one that is race related and some of my brothas have told me a thing or to that I want to set down on paper and get out there. You can do those screenplays to.
Evocator Manes: Evil never really dies. It just slumbers until it is resurrected.
So there you have it. I know, I know y’all are disappointed. You expected a bloodbath, and we end up agreeing to collaborate on a screenplay. But we both feel that some interesting points were brought up. We are also eager to hear your views. I’m sure that y’all have something to say. So drop me an email. Hope that the New Year found you well.Catch y’all in the future-mathan
