Daron you got a ton of emails thanks to the Kitty comment. So it’s gonna be a pretty busy issue for you. I can almost sit back and let you cover the column this week.
Great…if there a ton of them that almost has to be they’re not of the positive persuasion. I know you’re just eating this up…
Richard emails
Hey, just a comment on DOL’s timeline. I thought Kitty joined at the age of 13. Recently she was seen as a college student. I’d put her in her early 20’s.
I think if anything Kitty might be 20 exactly. Remember Kitty has always been super smart. She could’ve skipped a grade in there or something and started college around 16-17. We know she joined the X-Men at 13. That’s a known fact. Anything else would be guess work.
I’m trying to decide how best to handle this. I think I’ll just wait and respond at the end of all these so as not to repeat myself, unless there’s something that needs to be addressed in any of the individual emails. So see below for my statements on this whole thing… – Daron
Les emails
Hi Jim,
A few comments on some of the stuff that was discussed last column.
1) Redstone – While I haven’t been reading the current “Supreme Power” series and I haven’t gone back and read the old “Squadren Supreme” Maxi-Series, I know that each of the heroes in it are based off of DC heroes. Since you said Nighthawk formed the Redeemers, I suppose that they’re a rip-off of The Outsiders. The Outsiders team over at DC was originally formed by Batman when he got fed up witht he JLA. Now the only question is which Outsider was Redstone a rip-off of? Maybe something to toss over to “Who’s Who in the DCU”?
Hmm you know I’ve heard that one before. I think you might be right too. If it’s the original Outsider group formed by Batman then I think Redstone might be Geo-Force. I’ll bet if I’m wrong Mathan will correct me or we’ll get a ton more emails.
2) Marvel Continuity – Marvel continuity is screwed. Marvel doesn’t have a firm stance on when the “Age of Heroes” started. While Daron is correct about some events seeming to take place rather recently, there’s as much evidence that there’s been much longer time between things. Kitty Pryde for example is in College and worked as a Bartender for awhile. She started in the X-Men when she was thirteen. Cyclops has admitted to being in his mid-twenties while also saying that he was younger then the New Mutants when he first started out as an X-Man. Also in the “Unlimited Access” DC/Marvel cross-over, when Access travels 10 years into Marvel’s past, he encounters the second line-up of Avengers (Giant Man, Wasp, Thor, Iron Man and Captain America) and they battle the original JLA (An awesome fight, and an awesome mini-series, regardless of Access sucking as a character). And besides, if you think about, 10 years ago is only 1994? 1995? Maybe latter depending on when the story took place. It’s not impossible for people to have cell phones or the internet back in the mid 90’s. Regardless, I do feel Marvel has to make a definite stance on a time-line in general, just like DC has.
Just tossing in my two cents,
Marvel had a great timeline though back in the old days, when continuity really mattered. We’re talking 60-80’s here, even some of the 90s. It’s gotten worse over time. Bad EIC’s and editors that just didn’t seem to pay attention, and some writers who just plum did not care. Marvel can fix the problem if they really put some time into it. Hell I’ve volunteered on here before to fix Marvels problems. We don’t need a Crisis event, just some effort to put ages on the characters and where they are.
Steven emails
Dear Jim and Daron,
First the contractually obligated praise for a great job on the Marvel Handbook. As someone who has followed Marvel since the mid 70s I read and enjoy the Marvel Handbook.
Why thank you Steven. We do our best here.
In response to a question about the 10 year policy and characters aging Daron wrote: “In the entire time she’s been around Kitty Pride has only really aged about 3 years. On the flip side Peter Parker has aged more than 10.” I think Daron’s numbers are off for Kitty. When she debuted she was portrayed as around 13 years old, in some of her more recent appearances she is portrayed as a bartender, which would require her to be at least 18 and more probably 21 years old. This means that Kitty has aged approximately 5 to 8 years since debuting (I’m guessing here about 1976-7) while Peter Parker has aged more than 10 years since debuting in the early 60s. I think Daron’s point is correct, that there is no consistent timeline in the Marvel Universe, but I think his example is flawed.
Keep up the good work.
Will do. As stated earlier it’s the age thing that’s always been a problem. You often can’t figure out the ages of the characters. I mean it’s rare and you’d have to do a lot of work to figure it out.
David emails
I wanted to make a few comments about Marvel aging. I believe we can safely assume that Peter Parker has aged more than 10 years at this point. He was about 15 when he started as Spider-Man, and I believe it’s been stated that he was a sophomore in high school when he was bitten. Now given that the first couple years seemed to go by in almost real time for him, he was 18 when he graduated in 1966 our time. Since then, he went to college, graduated LATE because he was short on phy-ed credits (yeah THAT’S believable), then went on to grad school for a while, dropped out…let’s say he was 23-24 when that happened, and it was 1983 our time. Are we to believe that in the 22 years since then, he has gotten married, had his wife nearly come to term with a failed pregnancy and he is only….25-26? He HAS to be getting close to 30 at this point.
I think Pete might be 28 or 29 if not 30. I mean we can debate this over and over again until someone actually confirms it.
As for Kitty Pryde, isn’t she 18 at this point? No longer jailbait for the likes of Rasputin, Pete Wisdom, and lord know whom else? That would have at least 4 1/2 years passing for her, which would jibe with the time passed for Parker since she debuted.
My general rule of thumb is that Marvel time passes at about 1/3 of our time.
Yep Kitty is no longer jailbait. It’s sort of known fact now.
Okay that looks like my que to respond. First, thanks to everyone who responded to this, especially those of you who realized that I was over exaggerating a bit in my statement.
The first thing you need to know is that I don’t really get to research my part of the Handbook. I get the thing the night before it goes up, and pretty much have to respond and post. This is why Jim usually handles the “facts” portion of the column, while I handle a bit more of the opinion. I would love to be able to research each question and give EXACT answers, but time just doesn’t allow for that. So for that I’m sorry.
To this specific case…some of you probably realized I was making an exaggeration to get my point across. Sure I honestly didn’t know that Kitty was 13 when she debuted, hell I wasn’t reading comics at that point…but surely you all see that my point about her relative lack of aging vs. Pete’s is on target. (Personally I think she’s closer to 18 than 21, but I could be wrong; can anyone find a quote from an issue???) The point I was trying to make is that Marvel really has no system by which you can put events into a timeline or even date their characters.
Hopefully this proved my point…if not, sound off. – Daron
George emails
Hiya,
I have to add my my two cents to this Fastball Special with Wolverine throwing unarmored Colossus. First, Wolverine is stronger than you seem to be giving him credit for. His bones are laced with adamantium which means there’s probably at least 50 pounds on his frame, thought probably have to add more. Second, his healing factor would kick in, like if he worked on a bench press, his muscles would tear and naturally heal, growing stronger throughout the workout (I doubt he gets sore in the morning) so he’s like his own steroid that way. Third, if Wolverine bench presses at all, I think it would be closer to double or even triple his own weight so maybe 500-750 pounds. Plus I remember reading that Wolverine, though nowhere near as strong as Colossus, does have some mutant strength (probably between an Olympian weight lifter and Spider-Man). He could certainly pick up and throw Colossus, but not necessarily that far.
Actually I did say Wolverine was strong, I’m not debating that. I said it and then everyone reminded us that at the time they were on the moon. He can lift others though. still think he can list maybe 150 pounds if not a tad more.
Don’t take this wrong way, George, but that’s just nutty. Looking past the fact that all this took place on the moon (which is the ONLY way it was possible), let’s look at this “realistically.” I’ll respond to each of your points.
1. The Adamantium. I’ll give you that it probably ways about 50lbs. or so, but that’s spread out over his entire body. It’s not like we’re talking about 50lbs. added just to his arms, making him stronger. It’s 50lbs. (it of course could a bit more or less) evenly distributed throughout his entire body. Sure this might make him a bit stronger, but not the levels we’re talking about. That’s like saying if you walked around with a 10-pound weight around your neck, and each arm and leg that eventually you’d be strong enough to pick up and through a person… I’m thinking not…especially someone more than double your size.
2. The Healing Factor. This is really a non-issue. There’s no way that his healing factor could do what you’re describing in the context of throwing Peter. Yes his muscle tissue would heal quicker, thus letting him return to working out faster than a normal person (and also allow him to get stronger faster), but first off his healing isn’t instant. As we almost always see it takes time, sure it’s pretty freakin quick but it’s not instantaneous. Secondly, there’s a huge difference between working out (i.e. lifting weight you know you can lift, and incrementally more than that) and picking up and THROWING a human being more than twice your size. The healing factor wouldn’t even come into play here…except after Wolvie throws his back out from trying to lift Pete up.
3. The Weight. There’s just no way that Logan is lifting 750lbs. 400, giving it everything he’s got…maybe.
Anyone else want to chime in on this one? – Daron
By the way both Daredevil and Wolverine have heightened senses, which would make for the better tracker i.e. who’s senses are keener?
I think Wolverine has the better senses. He’s got partial animal senses. DD is a close second.
Yeah, I’d have to say that Wolvie is the better tracker. DD has heightened human senses (and of course his radar) but that doesn’t really translate into “tracking skills.” Logan’s sense are more animalistic in nature. – Daron
Glen emails
Gotta question for ya. A couple of months in She Hulk, a golden aged hero known as the Challenger was shown as being rejuvenated from suspended animation somehow. He had a unique costume, so I looked him up in the Golden Age Marvel Handbook, where he didn’t have a page, but a small blurb on the back cover. Has this character been seen since?
Good question. Here’s what I know and a list of known appearances.
The Challenger
Real Name: Enver Given
Occupation: Law Student
Legal Status: Citizen of the United States with no criminal record
Other Aliases: None Known
Place of Birth: Unrevealed
Marital Status: Single
Known Relatives: Unnamed father – deceased
Group Membership: None
Powers: The Challenger is a “master of weapons” and has knowledge of Jiu-Jitsu, Chemistry, Nerve Control, Swordsmanship, Marksmanship, Piloting an airplane, Boxing and Latin.
First Appearance: Daring Mystery Comics #7
Appearances:
Daring Mystery Comics #7
Mystic Comics #6 – #10
Marvel Premiere #29
Plus the She-Hulk issue. Otherwise he has yet to appear again.
Beadle posted
OK then Jim, here’s a challenge for you:
How many separate dimensions have been established within the Marvel Omniverse? This doesn’t include Parallel Earths based on 616-Marvel or Alternate Futures.
Off the top of my head, we’re talking about:
Negative Zone
Microverse
Dark Dimension
Darkforce Dimension (not the same thing)
Arkon’s dimension
Limbo
Otherworld? (or is that a parallel world)
Dimension of The Beyonders
Hades
Hel
Asgard
Olympus
The Celtic Gods’ Dimension
The Egyptian Gods’Dimension
Mephisto’s Realm
Death’s Realm
New Universe
Ultra verse
…but I’m sure I’m missing loads of them. Your natural curiosity and willingness to spend long periods of time researching otherwise pointless questions could really be put to use here!!
Nice list above. I think I can go threw in some others you missed.
Amazar (alien dimension)
Ankh Dimension (creators of the Zodiac Key)
Avalon/Otherworld (Home of the Celtic Gods you mentioned)
Encroachiverses (From Sensational She-Hulk 13-17)
Bermuda Triangle (land of Dinosaurs not Savage Land)
Black Sea Dimension (Ocean type world)
Boreas (An ice dimension)
Cloudsea (from Marvel Graphic Novel 22)
Heliopolis (home of the Egyptian Gods)
Crossroads (Mystic dimension they once sent the Hulk to)
Defiler’s realm (Villain from West Coast Avengers #38)
Dimension Z (Living Eraser home)
Drakos (Mystic realm)
Elsewhen
Femizonia (Home of Thundra)
Fifth Dimension
Flatworld
Inniverse
Interzone (Nexus inbetween realities)
Jakar’s World
K’ai (former home of Jarella)
Kingdom of Tazza
Kosmos
Land Within (home of Cat People)
Live World (home of Dream Queen)
Luminia
Megrim
Mojo World
Muspelheim
Narcisson (home of the Dark Gods)
Netherworld of Eternal Doom
N’Garai homeworld
Other Realm (Starlord)
Perrinois
Polemachus (home of Arkon)
Purple Dimension
Realm of Madness
Quadriverse
Saku
Shadow-Realm
Shadowverse
Sixth Dimension
Tagak’s World
Tunnelworld
Wasteland
Zephyrland
Shiro posted
What’s a flatscan? How did the term originate?
You know I just love it when Jim COMPLETELY skips a question. Luckily, I know this one.
A flatscan is a derogatory term used by mutants when referring to normal humans. I’m sure you can come up with some real life cultural parallels. As far as how it originated, or better yet what issue it first appeared in…I honestly have no idea. I’m sure it was first expressed by a “evil” mutant but I have no idea who it was or when. Maybe if Jim peruses this issue before next week he can get us an answer… – Daron
I just came to read this before it went up and I forgot to answer it totally. *hits himself in the head with his hand*
Ok
As Daron said a Flatscan is an evil mutant term for humans. It’s one of Fabian Cortez’s favorite names for humans in fact. So I’m betting the name came about when Fabian made his first appearance. That would be around X-Men Vol 2 # 1
RevAladdinSane posted
I gotta make a correction to something Daron said in the newest installment
Quote:
Here’s a great example. In the entire time she’s been around Kitty Pride has only really aged about 3 years. On the flip side Peter Parker has aged more than 10. Try and fit a “standard” time lapse around numbers like that… Or rather don’t, we like having you all as readers.
Kitty joined the X-Men at age 13. At the time of Mekanix, and X-treme X-Men, she was a college student working as a bartender, so she’s aged at least 8 years since then, which fits more comfortably.
I’m already tired of covering this, this week. This ones all yours Daron.
You know, if you’d have put this up with the others it wouldn’t even be an issue. See above Rev for my response to this whole thing… – Daron
A_Faceless_Name posted
Not including standard art redesigns, what armors has Iron Man had? Like Silver Centurian, Stealth, etc. And a brief description of what they were for if possible.
How about I just make this a tad simple. We’ll go threw most of them with links:
The Original Grey Armor: Tales of Suspense #39
Gold armor: Tales of Suspense #40
Original Red Gold: Tales of Suspense #48
Classic Armor: Tales of Suspense #66
Space Armor I: Iron Man # 142 (Used to fight Sunturion in space)
Stealth Armor: Iron Man # 152 (Used to infiltrate the East German fortress)
Recovery Armor: Iron Man #191 (used while he was recovering from alcoholism)
Silver Centurion: Iron Man #200 (replaced the classic look)
Hydro Armor: Iron Man # 218 (Deep Sea suit created to handle his undersea missions)
The New Red and Gold: Iron Man # 231 (Used by Stark to clear his name)
Space Armor Mark II: Iron Man # 278 (Created for Operation Galactic Storm)
Telepresence Armor>: Iron Man # 280 (first used while lost use of legs)
War Machine: Iron Man # 281 (Created initially by Stark to deal with the Masters of Silence threat)
Remote Control Armor: Iron Man # 290 (Created as a remote control unit for Stark)
Remote Control Armor: Iron Man # 290 (Created as a remote control unit for Stark)
: Hulk-Buster Armor: Iron Man # 304 (Created to Fight the Hulk)
The Arctic Armor: Iron Man # 318 (used the armor to journey to his Arctic bunker)
Retro Armor: Iron Man # 319 (Created during Crossing Saga)
Teen Tony Armor: Iron Man #328 (Created by a teen Tony Stark)
Heroes Reborn Armor: Iron Man vol. 2 #1 (Created by Stark during Heroes Reborn)
Heroes Return Armor: Iron Man vol. 3 #1 (Created when Stark returned to 616 Earth)
Experimental Safe Armor: Iron Man vol. 3 #14 (Created to help save Tony’s life)
Sentient Armor: Iron Man vol. 3 #15 (This one became alive after a battle with Sunset Bain)
Outer Atmospheric Armor: Iron Man Bad Blood (New space armor)
S.K.I.N. Armor: Iron Man vol. 3 #44 (Used during the time Stark suffered technophobia)
Plastic Ghost Armor: BLACK PANTHER Vol. 2 #44 (Aka the new stealth armor to fight Black Panther)
ThorBuster armor: Iron Man vol. 3 #64 (Created to fight Thor)
Ablative Armor: Iron Man vol. 3 #71 (This armor was originally designed to be used in space with impact rich environments.)
Hypergravity Armor: Iron Man Vol. 3 # 83 (Was used to protect from high gravity)
Current Iron Man Armor : (Replaces Skin armor)
All I can is wow! – Daron
All right, that’s it for this week, Daron. Pretty busy issue for both of us. So how about you give the readers a good sign off and what else to look forward to if anything.
You know I think I’ve said plenty already this week. So how about I just say, see you all next week!
My turn
1. Don’t forget to vote this week for your favorite ten Marvel story arcs. I have yet to get any votes so I’m fine with just votes for your top tens. Questions would be nice as well or opinions.
2. Marvel and Wizard are having the vote for Marvel cover of the year. So go vote here
3. Wizard Fan Awards have also started so go check them out here
That’s it this week. Reporting from my corner of the Marvel Universe I’m Jim Trabold, have a great week and see you at the comic shop.
