NOTE: The individual opinions of each Roundtable contributor are their own, and is not representative of anybody but that contributor.
What, you thought that the regular Roundtable was all for this week? Think again…
Now, for your viewing pleasure, the Nexus crew wax lyrical about the week’s developments in the DCU – more specifically, the unmasking of the new Red Hood in BATMAN #638 and the events of the COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS one-shot.
These comments will, naturally, contain great big fat SPOILERS so read on at your own risk…
We now resume our scheduled programming…
BATMAN #638 – the new Red Hood is revealed to be Jason Todd [Discuss: Here]
WILL COOLING: I thought he was the Joker? I’m confused by DC’s complete disregard for continuity whilst doing stories that only the most long term and established fan will give a shit about.
MIKE MAILLARO: It’s a new Red Hood. Someone using the old one’s name to give himself a rep.
MANOLIS VAMVOUNIS: So Red Hood is Hush? Oh, no wait, that wasn’t really who Hush was, right? Can they really pull off the same cliff-hanger twice in as many years? I hope it’s for real this time…
PAUL SEBERT: I thumbed through this at the comic store and I was shocked to find out the Red Hood was really Clayface pretending to be Jason Todd pretending to be Hush. Damn that Riddler is good at this!
MIKE MAILLARO: Over the course of the last few years, DC has made me feel completely alienated as a fan.
Cancelling H.E.R.O., FALLEN ANGEL, DEADMAN, POWER COMPANY, and YOUNG JUSTICE…
Bringing back characters I never had any interest in – Hal Jordan and Jason Todd come to mind.
Killing off characters and concepts that I love – A fun Justice League book, killing Robin’s father (an orphan Robin, gee that hasn’t been done before), etc. In fact, the whole idea of humour seems to have been lost on DC lately. Watch out Plastic Man!
Not to mention losing terrific creators like Ed Brubaker, Scott Kolins, Olivier Coipel, Tom Grummett, Mike McKone, and on and on to Marvel exclusive contracts. But they’ll hold tight to *yawn* Johns and Rucka.
Understand this. I am a huge Batman fan. In fact, I have every core Batman title going back to 1985. Despite this, I dropped DETECTIVE
COMICS, GOTHAM KNIGHTS, GOTHAM CENTRAL, and LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT.
Right now, the only DC books I am buying are SEVEN SOLDIERS, SUPERMAN/BATMAN, LEGION, BATMAN (couldn’t bring myself to drop all my Bat titles), AQUAMAN and JLA (for my fiance), and JLA CLASSIFIED (only until the current arc is done).
KEVIN MAHONEY: Huh. I agree with a lot of what Mike is saying (except maybe the Johns bashing) and I think DC is swerving back around to the grim and gritty aspect a bit too quickly. But I read for writing and historically, Winick has been a real character bender (read misuse) for me. I probably would only have browsed this series anyhow, despite the hype. I think a lot of DC series get the boot due to low readership; regardless of quality few readers want to take the risk of a title outside the main continuity.
And Mike, FLASH is one of the best (and occasionally funniest) straight super books out there… written by Geoff Johns.
MIKE MAILLARO: I read FLASH for most of Johns’ run. Around issue #200, I started getting bored. Especially when he started back pedalling… all the heroes remember him! Great!! *roll eyes* Johns’ biggest strength is his last page shockers. His biggest weakness is that the follow-up to these shockers usually just leaves me flat.
KEVIN MAHONEY: Ugh. I can’t believe you were bored during Blitz/Ignition of all things?! That story had profound results (I mean they can’t have kids… that’s huge) and Zoom rules as a villain. As far as the amnesia… that had to be temporary or it would’ve killed the JLA/Titans side of continuity. Maybe it would’ve been more interesting, but I don’t believe it would have worked long term. Plus we got a Flash/WW crossover out of it!
And you know Rogue War is on right?
I think Johns’ greatest strength is his ability to mix and match what feels like noir/modern and Golden Age/Modern Age, etc.
MIKE MAILLARO: Blitz was great… everything after that started to go downhill fast. Not having kids isn’t huge; it’s just a cop out. I’d love to see how a hero deals with having kids. Other than Reed Richards, I can’t think of any other hero where it’s actually stuck. Power Girl, Spider-Man, and Flash are some good examples.
KEVIN MAHONEY: First, I don’t think either Flash or Spidey were cop outs per se. Neglecting the Clone flavour (Osborne) of the second case, you gotta remember that the “stillborn” child helped put their marriage on the rocks for a long while. Not bad story results for an ugly editorially motivated move (i.e. Osborne’s return and the sweeping of the Clone story under the rug). And Flash’s continuity has to totally change now, if you buy any of the “real future DCU” angles. Linda is sterile… which means Wally will eventually go elsewhere or there won’t be generations of Flashes from his loins.
And the Blitz story opened Wally up to attack from every villain, so that had to get a lid on it or else the book would’ve become the revenge of the month club. And of course the other titles with Flash guest starring would’ve had to totally change dynamics w/o the eventual heroic reveal.
I’d admit a creator owned property or an Elseworlds wouldn’t have had those hoops to jump through, but blaming Johns seems a lot like shooting the messenger to me. He had to keep the DCU in a relatively stable shape. Until editorial mandates the next crappy event, anyway.
PAUL SEBERT: To be honest I love most of the stuff Johns, Rucka, and Winick do I have to agree with Michael on a lot of this and DC really seems to be pissing away a lot of goodwill as of late between this and crap like War Games.
So really if you don’t like the direction DC is going with this well then I simply ask that you vote with your dollars. Fans lamenting the passing of “fun” comics have a number of options at Marvel with RUNAWAYS, YOUNG AVENGERS, ARANA, SPIDER-MAN/HUMAN TORCH, etc., with a few more coming down the pipe line with POWER PACK and GRAVITY.
Vote with your hard-earned greenbacks people.
COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS – Blue Beetle is murdered by your new villain, Maxwell Lord, the Black King of Checkmate [Discuss: Here]
COREN: There’s been talk of this tying up a loose end of good ol’ Max being possessed and whatnot, and I gotta weigh in on that side of the debate. It just makes no sense for him to have gone rogue any other way.
As for Blue Beetle, the foreshadowing was pretty heavy even in the preview pages. The obvious route here is the new Spectre, but I wonder if DC will try something else.
Also, supposedly, Tim Drake becomes the Blue Beetle. Anyone care to explain that one to the new guy?
MANOLIS VAMVOUNIS: Someone must really hate the Giffen League over at DC! First Sue Dibny gets raped and flambéed by mistake and the Elongated Man becomes a nervous wreck. Now, Blue Beetle is killed and Maxwell Lord goes dark and sinister? Maxwell Lord?!? If they really want Giffen off their properties, they could just kill them with some dignity, not molest them in this long-drawn way to fuel their need for sacrificial lambs for their summer “events” for the next decade…
PAUL SEBERT: For those not well versed in DCU History… I turn to this excerpt from The DC Comics Encyclopaedia:
“Later Maxwell Lord died from brain cancer and was resurrected by the alien Kilg&ore (yes the guy has a freaking percent sign in his name) to become the all-new Lord Havok. Lord disappeared after destroying the Arcana an organization to which he belonged. The robotic Lord resurfaced with fellow surviving Extremist automations and battled Supergirl. The deactivated Extremists are currently on display at a wax museum in Paris.”
So as you can see Maxwell Lord went from being human, to a killer robot… to a cyborg in FKATJL to back to a human who is the evil head of Checkmate. I mean he would have to have somehow become human again for his whole speech to Blue about “Wanting to put Earth’s destiny into human hands, not people pretending to be human” wouldn’t make a lick of sense.
Oh god… I think DC just broke my brain.
Honest it astounds me that there are still people going around talking about how DC is better than Marvel because they supposedly have a much more solid continuity when there are stories like this going about.
Anyway I found myself really enjoying this book until they got to the whole evil overlord Maxwell Lord plot point. It struck me as making as much sense as putting J. Jonah Jameson in charge of HYRDA.
On a more positive note I got an advance copy of the first issue of the new POWER PACK mini and… God I love those adorable munchkins. ^_^
IAIN BURNSIDE: Well, I do like munchkins.
You know what I read last night in a ferocious bout of insomnia? JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA #41… the debut and, to my knowledge, final appearance of Maxwell Lord’s superhero alter ego – Maximum Force.
Basically, this was just after J’onn had learned of Max’s psychic abilities and was trying to warn him of the responsibilities his powers entailed (even going so far as to throw in that infamous Stan Lee line). Max went out to a party and used his ‘extra’ powers of persuasion to get an attractive young woman to come and talk to him, but when they went back to his place he passed out drunk and had this dream where he was Maximum Force. In a garish pink outfit he flew around the city persuading several criminals to kill, shoot, injure and maim themselves with but a casual, throwaway line such as “drop dead.” Before he woke up and spewed his brains out, the Justice League was forced to confront him and send him to jail.
As of last month, it would have been nothing but a humourous spin on the burden that superheroes carry when battling evil. Now it just feels strangely sinister and foreboding, almost as if the Maxwell Lord character himself is taking the piss. I’m not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing, but I am beginning to understand just how all those Dibny fans felt after IDENTITY CRISIS…
JOHN “THE COACH” BABOS: The story isn’t over. At first blush there are elements that contradict continuity, but that’s not to say there isn’t an explanation coming re: Max Lord, etc. COUNTDOWN is the beginning of the journey not the end.
MATT MORRISON: I’ll wait to the end. But I have a sneaking suspicion that this, like many projects written totally or in part by Judd Winick, will totally ignore continuity and past characterization in favour of “a new take.”
ANDY CAMPBELL: Indeed. Additionally, I wouldn’t say that everyone was ignoring Beetle. It seems to me that there is a lot going on at the moment (e.g. the beginning of the RANN/THANAGAR WAR), so everyone can’t run to his aid at the drop of a hat.
Eh… just my opinion.
Oh, also, I wouldn’t say they are “pissing” on the Giffen/DeMatteis League. The characterization is going to be different, because G&D wrote a humour book, not a straight-up superhero book. And let’s be honest… those characters aren’t really doing much outside of “I Can’t Believe It’s Not the Justice League.” Don’t get me wrong… I love the characters, and I love G&D’s writing. However, I think there are good stories to be found in many different approaches, including the death of Blue Beetle.
Thanks for hearing me out.
CHRIS “THE HIGHER POWER” DELLOIACONO: Pretty soon DC will be able to count on almost none of my money. The DC titles on my pull used to include most mainstream titles. My interest in what DC was offering has been slowly eroding over the past 18 months. In the past four months that erosion has sped up significantly. It’s gone so poorly of late that the only DC books that I’m firmly committed to purchasing at the moment are FLASH, MANHUNTER, JLA CLASSIFIED (until ICBINJL is over) and NIGHTWING. There are a few books that are on month-to-month life support, but after the debacle with COUNTDOWN, I’m thinking of saying bye-bye to them too.
What is DC thinking? I really have no interest in Max Lord heading up the “all-new” Checkmate as the ultimate evil of the DC Universe. Did Blue Beetle have to die? Do Johns, Winick, Rucka, and Didio really have that much of problem with the Giffen/DeMatteis years? Why waste an 80-page comic focusing on a character that you’re going to whack? Is this a way to bring Dan Garrett back as Beetle again?
Since when is Martian Manhunter an unfeeling pri**? On top of that, since when is most every other hero in the DCU a lousy, pompous, bastard? Batman has been cast as a worthless jerk for years. Why does everybody else have to fall in line?
These are the questions that I really don’t want answered. I could care less about a bunch of guys that don’t seem to care about anything but tearing other’s work down.
All this is leading up to the brand-new, gritty DCU.
Remember the last time that putrid stink was unleashed on the comic world?
It’s called the ’90s and it destroyed the comic industry.
I must say, it was great to see the Hal “The Ultimate Killer” Jordan back in the saddle again! I can’t wait until this wave of nostalgia-driven schlock is over. Maybe Hal will re-return to his roots as the mass-murdering psycho he was meant to be. As good as it started off GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH has turned into an absolute joke with some absolutely lame excuses for a murdering maniac’s actions that I’ve ever seen. The whole thing makes little sense and it’s further destroyed the DCU.
Who cares who DC kills? Hal’s back. Donna Troy’s back any day now. Blue Beetle takes a shot to the head, but I’m sure he’ll be back soon enough.
Oh boy! Let’s change everything, so we can change everything back! Then we’ll change everything again! Then we won’t! Then we will.
DC editorial used to have a focused clear vision. Now it’s helter skelter mayhem where each creator does what they like, showing no care for what previous writers did. Of course they say we’re getting a tighter more cohesive DCU. That’s bollocks!
What we’re getting is a ton of product that is meaningless in the end. Let’s flood the market with crap that’s going to change everything – again.
Anybody who wants to buy into the hype can. You can count me out.
ANDY CAMPBELL: See, for me, it’s just the opposite. My pull list is almost exclusively DC; you can count my Marvel books on one hand.
There are always going to be disagreements to change. People are naturally uncomfortable when their status quo changes. Hell, a guy at my comic shop has been grumpy for 20 years because he hated CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. He liked the “multiple earths” thing just fine and didn’t see why it needed to changed.
Now, I’m not trying to get anyone to change their mind. Certainly, everyone’s opinion is just as valid. For me, though, I like the direction DC is going in, and I will continue to make up the difference in money that they are losing from Chris. :-)
JESSE BAKER: It was shit. Better than Avengers Shitassembled but worse than IDC. The fact that we’ve now got DC taking the stance that the Giffen League was the team at it’s lowest ebb is insulting beyond belief and that Max Lord’s reveal as the villain makes zero sense unless someone at DC remembers that when we last saw Max prior to FKAJL that he had been killed and his corpse hijacked by Not-Doctor Doom Lord Havok and reveal that it’s Not-Doom Lord Havok that is the real big bad. That said I wish DC would have had Luthor be the one who kills Ted since at least that would put some f*cking credibility to his little “Legion of the Lame Super-Villains” cartel he’s got going. I mean, when your top two powerhouses are notorious tweeners who are smarter and better equipped at leading a super-villain cartel than Lex Luthor and your other members are a low-rent Baroness wannabe and a character who only worked in the Golden Age, back when Wonder Woman was a thinly disguised S&M guidebook comic, and a character who routinely let super-heroes beat the crap out of him, you know your group is in trouble in terms of credibility.
Beetle’s death was bullshit since they played it as everyone treating him like an insane nutcase who no one believed even when his bestest friend nearly got killed/had his home and his bug ship explode on him. Sure he turned out to be right but the way things were written, no one gave a f*ck about him. Not even Oracle who you’d think would have sent the Birds of Prey to follow Ted and rescue him or even pull the “You’re the reason I’m a cripple cause you wouldn’t kill the f*cking Joker when kept having a chance to!” guilt card to get Batman off his f*cking ass and assemble a rescue/back-up mission to help Ted.
And then there is Batman, who I think has lost all credibility given to him since the Morrison run due to the shit way that he let Ted die. The fact that Batman let Ted die the death he did makes me want to strip Batman’s super-genius street cred and take the notion that Batman is as dumb as shit and not the master manipulator/strategist everyone since Morrison makes him out to be since it’s obvious he didn’t give a f*ck about protecting Ted’s ass when it was shown he knew more than he f*cking let Ted know he knew about the events that led to Ted dying.
Not to mention the shit way that DC is handling the revelation he got mindwiped. Rather than doing the obvious and logical thing by taking the stance that Ollie was lying as usual about Batman knowing and playing up the tension for the big reveal when Ollie and/or Flash reveal to Bruce that his memory was f*cked with, suddenly we have Batman going around always knowing he had his mind f*cked with like a pathetic slapped on retcon of a plot twist.
That being said, the only bright spot in this poorly acted farce is that Geoff wisely set up the means to raise Ted from the grave by magically bringing back from oblivion the original Blue Beetle Scarab. Ten will get you twenty that Geoff has Shazam have Captain Marvel use the Scarab to resurrect Ted first chance Geoff has to go behind the Dildo’s back and get Paul Levitz to undermine the Dildo’s growing power base.
PAUL SEBERT: On a side note…
Looking over the Top 100 sales figures for January in this month’s WIZARD I am unable to help but notice that there were only 4 DC books in the top 20… And one of them was JLA CLASSIFIED.
So it makes perfect sense that DC’s response was to keep beating the Giffen-era Justice League with a stick.
CHRIS DELLOIACONO: You are dead on, Paul. The reason that I have no patience for the mess that DC is currently offering is because my money really counts in the comic industry. There are only so many people buying comics and unhappy people not spending their money will make a difference.
As for the “fun” books you mention, I’m reading all of them except Spidey/Torch–which I’ll pick up when the trade ships. There’re plenty of fun comics out there. Unfortunately, almost nothing at DC is fun anymore. DC is the company I grew up with and always considered my favorite. Now DC is barely worth my attention. It’s a sad fact. And the way things are going it’s only going to get sadder.
TIM STEVENS: Not to rain on your parade, but I believe that that issue of CLASSIFIED was Morrison’s.
PAUL SEBERT: Doh! Second goof I’ve made in two weeks.
IAIN BURNSIDE: Just for the record, January’s JLA CLASSIFIED #3 by Grant Morrison sold ~62,000 copies and February’s JLA CLASSIFIED #4 by Giffen/DeMatteis sold ~54,000 copies, which was roughly 10,000 copies more than what FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE sold…
COREN: If it was January, it was definitely Morrison’s. And it was crap, so I have no idea how it sold so well. But now is not the time to rant about Morrison.
So, color me shocked that Jesse didn’t like this one. Depending on where it goes from here, I did. And I think people are jumping on DC way too early on this one. What happened to “give it time”? One book, and suddenly it’s all bad?
Random bits and pieces…
Ted knew he was walking in to his death. This whole story was meant to put him over as a Batman-level genius. Add to that Booster in the hospital (not his fault), and he knew. Does that have any implications regarding his “death”? I think that it does…
I think the Batman realizing is brilliant. It gives perfect logic to his being so paranoid over the years. He can’t even trust the Justice League. Can’t even trust possibly Superman. And he can’t let on either because there’s no telling how they’ll handle that. I just loved that.
Why is Blue Beatle the Spectre? He died, if he’s really dead, or staying that way, a hero’s death, confronting evil. He died in the line of duty. This doesn’t strike me as a reason to become the Spectre. There is the aspect of Lord killing him, and betrayal, but I don’t think that’s enough. Dying for no real reason, being murdered by someone you trusted, when you had no reason to expect it, when your risks were minimal, when you should have been safe. That, to me, cries out for Vengeance. Imagine a Spectre like we haven’t seen before. One experienced in the life that the capes lead, but not actually a cape. Instead, a civilian. It’d give DC a chance to explore a Spectre with different motivations and outlooks. A Spectre new to their power, and power in general. A female Spectre.
Blue Beetle = Red Herring
Sue Dibny = New Spectre
…ok, so it’s probably not true at all, but I thought it’d be far more interesting than Blue Beetle as Spectre.
Maxwell Lord = Dreamslayer. To me, this is the only really plausible explanation for his heel turn. If they go with this, I’m a happy camper, even if Beetle doesn’t come back via the scarab or the Spectre. Just so long as Tim Drake isn’t the new Blue Beetle (the hell did that come from, what did I miss?).
NICK “CAPTAIN CHARISMA” PIERS: Holy crap!!!
You mean Hal Jordan has been behind it all since Emerald Twilight?! He sacrificed himself reigniting the sun?!!? Impulse, Steel and Aquaman were killed off?!?
Okay, kidding aside? This long rant has major, major spoilers so do not read any further if you don’t want to be spoiled.
Ugh. Look, it just seems like DC is further pissing on everything that Giffen and DeMatteis have been entertaining us with. I mean, what’s the point of having the current arc in JLA CLASSIFIED if they’re going to piss on not one but two characters in it at the very same time?
I’m not saying the story wasn’t good. It was. But it makes no sense after completely different characterization seen only last week in “I Can’t Believe…” Plus, the complete disregard of Ted by everyone is out of character. Barbara never gave him that kind of cold shoulder before. And yet, he’s ignored despite his house being blown up, Booster nearly killed, the Bug destroyed by a similar ray in broad daylight in the middle of the street, etc. For all this so-called work on making the DCU look more community based, they’re failing miserably. I understand the idea is that Blue Beetle was a pest but to have him completely disregarded, even by close friends like Oracle? It makes no sense.
I’m nearly to the point of cancelling all of the spin-offs from this due to lack of interest and to show that this is not a direction I’m interested in. I’ve been looking for a reason for a long time to go with just a single creative team titles like INVINCIBLE, Y, FABLES, SLEEPER, etc. This is starting to look like a good reason to start. A boycott from me wouldn’t hurt DC that much because this is going to set the comic book world on fire.
But it’s not setting me on fire.
Here’s some speculation for you, though. It’s pretty much the only thing that might keep me interested:
What if Booster Gold was in on it and working with Max? There were several instances where he seemed to be there just at the right time (distracting Ted with losing his company by borrowing money, saving him from the Madmen, etc). Plus, it goes back to the IDENTITY CRISIS question: who benefits? If the first string heroes were removed from the equation, who’s left? The second stringers. Like Booster Gold. He said himself in COUNTDOWN that he wanted opportunity, fame, etc. I don’t think he’d betray Ted like this, but maybe he thought Max would be able to persuade Ted to join Checkmate?
It’s a thought.
JESSE BAKER: Random thoughts:
I think this is totally different in terms of “Who Benefits?” in that it’s the first stringers who benefit. The fact that one of the major themes of COUNTDOWN was how utterly lame the Giffen JLA was and how it was one if not the darkest hours of the League’s history makes me think that is the undercurrent. Max kills Blue Beetle and puts Booster Gold in the hospital? The JLA benefits, since it means that none of the Big Seven are being killed. It’s the old cannon fodder theory, where you send your second and third ranked people into battle so they die and not the first ranked people. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised (and disappointed) if it’s revealed in the OMAC mini that Batman knew perfectly well that Blue Beetle was onto something/that Max was the big bad responsible for it and let him go to his death for no other reason than because Blue Beetle (to paraphrase a line from Buffy the Vampire Slayer”) “was beneath him”. It’s class warfare on the level of super-heroes with Batman deciding that better to let a soon to be poor Ted Kord do Batman’s dirty work and die than it would be for Batman to get off his rich, fat ass and do something about it.
As for Booster Gold, personally I’d have preferred if Booster Gold was the mastermind not Max Lord. That way:
1. It wouldn’t come off as disrespecting the Giffen JLA (and given what happened in ICBITJL #2, would make for some hell of a foreshadowing on Giffen’s part).
2. It would make more sense IF they played to the strengths of such a revelation:
BG is from the future. So he knows all about the background of all of the main heroes and their ultimate fates. He’s also a down on his luck egotist who’s motives for being a hero have always been tainted with his need for fame and fortune. Tie into the fact that he’s treated as a joke by just about all of the Big Seven and other heroes and that even though he’s a former member of the JLA who’s faced down such big name threats as Doomsday, Despero, Lobo, Joker, the Overlord, Dreamslayer, and Dr. Destiny, his entire time as a member of the JLA is treated like a freaking joke, even lower than the time Aquaman fired half the League and replaced the Big Guns with a bunch of team heroes who wouldn’t even be accepted by the Legion of Substitute Heroes!
So one day Booster snaps and decides that if no one will respect him as a hero, he’ll be the biggest villain in the DCU, bigger than Luthor and more heart-wrenching in his betrayals than Hal Jordan. He kills off the leadership of Checkmate and takes over as the group leader and uses his direct knowledge of future events/technology to bribe government officials into letting him do so without any hassle. He builds comprehensive files on ALL of the major super-heroes in the DCU complete with their secret identities and weaknesses. He creates OMAC, which would be revealed to be a doomsday device that will be created in the near future to be used in future wars. And to help finance this? He steals money from his best friend Ted Kord, who like Booster is treated like a loser by Batman and the rest of the DCU population and that such an event combined with Batman treating Ted like a new money peon who isn’t worth helping would make Ted ripe for joining forces with his best friend in order to rain down Columbine-style revenge against everyone who mistreated them.
The whole point of COUNTDOWN would be Ted finding out about Checkmate and Booster purposely destroying Ted’s home/computer to through him off the trail by faking an attack that leaves his friend “injured”. But Ted insists on continuing and ultimately gets to the Checkmate HQ, where he finds the files and his best friend as the evil mastermind.
It would have made the ending much more tense and dramatic, as Booster explains his plans for revenge and invites Ted to join him. Ted refuses and tries to leave but gets the crap beaten out of him by OMAC. Ted is put in restraints and brought before Booster, who makes his pitch for them teaming up. Ted refuses; Booster pulls out a gun and points it at his best friend’s head. Booster begs Ted to join him, that he knows deep in his heart that Booster is right in that the Big 7 and their friends need to be taught a lesson about treating people Booster and Ted like dog shit. Ted refuses and tells Booster that he won’t kill him – that despite his posturing about being the Big Bad that Booster loves Ted too much to kill him. A tear goes down Booster’s cheek as tells Ted he’s sorry as he pulls the trigger and puts a bullet in his best friend’s head.
We cut to Blue Beetle’s corpse and a gore shot of Beetle’s face being caved in by the close range bullet to the face. A Checkmate agent comes into the room as Booster wipes away his tear and asks why Booster wouldn’t let his minions do the job. Booster replies that he had to do it himself and to prove to himself that he was strong enough in will and spirit to not only be the Black King of Checkmate but also to be able to do the evil things he plans on doing without any emotional sympathy weakening his resolve. Booster holsters his gun and orders the body of his best friend to be burnt to ash. The agent carries away Ted’s corpse as Booster turns to the computer screen (which have not been corrupted or erased) and orders his computer to begin phase one of his masterplan. We get images of the Thangarian fleet, a hidden camera feed of Lex and his Secret Society of Super-Villains talking, of Batman going over files on OMAC and of the Spectre rampaging against some generic thugs.
IAIN BURNSIDE: As long as they stop short of having G’Nort revealed as the true source of Parallax’s power, nothing would surprise me.
With regards to Max, what if he was the reason for Jean Loring killing Sue Dibny? He could have used his persuasive abilities to “just happen” to tell her to use her husband’s tech to “just happen” to go see Sue to “just happen” to take a flamethrower to “just happen” to murder her… It would certainly make me feel a whole lot better about what I found to be some extremely flimsy plotting at the end of IDENTITY CRISIS. It would also have been a rather nifty way for him to try and tear apart the Justice League from the inside in the run-up to finalising his OMAC wotsits, especially with the opposing viewpoints of people like Superman and Wonder Woman or Green Arrow and Flash… Not to mention dredging up the whole Batman mindwipe shebangle… Hell, he could even have unblocked Dr. Light’s memories while he was at it… Interesting times…
JESSE BAKER: Hello? Jean Loring was an evil c**t from hell (pardon my foul language) and evil c**ts from hell (which exist in real life, as I know from personal experience) do evil things all the time.
That being said, what I’d prefer to see is when IDENTITY CRISIS gets released in TPB/HC format, that Meltzer and Morales produce several new pages that establish Jean Loring’s history as Queen C**t who ruined Atom’s life by divorcing him AFTER being caught in the act of cheating on him with another man.
IAIN BURNSIDE: Hello!
Let’s not get started on another IDENTITY CRISIS rant in addition to what’s we’ve already got here. ‘Twas but a ponderment. Besides, I’m much more interested in hearing about your personal Evil C’s From Hell…
ANDY LOGAN: Wow. I’m stunned – This is why I need to hang out around the forums more often… I had no idea there was such a depth of feeling towards DC at the moment, even if we are only a small section of the comic buying/reading public.
It’s kind of funny, but my experience is almost the exact opposite of yours Chris – I grew up on a Marvel diet – X-Men mainly – and never paid any attention to DC whatsoever. I knew who Superman and Batman were – who doesn’t? – but I never bothered picking up any of their titles. DC, for some strange reason that I could never quite figure out, just never appealed to me.
Nowadays, things have changed. I pick up a plethora of DC titles, chief among them BATMAN and FLASH. I also really enjoyed “season one” of HARD TIME (does anyone know when season two is going to appear, BTW?). To me, DC does certain things well, Marvel do other things just as well, and I’m glad I’ve got the chance to enjoy the best of both of them.
Marvel have, in my humble opinion, got it spot-on with AGE OF APOCALYPSE recently. A mini-series, a brief tie-in with EXILES, and assorted one-shot goodies. Short, sweet and to the point, and, best of all, you don’t have to pick up titles that you would never normally buy – within continuity – to capture the full flavour of the story.
DC also got it spot-on with IDENTITY CRISIS, crafting a compelling, superbly written story that stood alone by itself but still impacted on the rest of the DC universe as a whole.
Sure, DC took a huge misstep with WAR GAMES, which was boring and over-long. However, at the same time, Marvel appear to be heading for a fall with HOUSE OF M, with the list of titles that the story will cross over into giving both me and my wallet nightmares. Answer? I won’t buy them, same as I didn’t pick up every issue of WAR GAMES – it’s a principal thing, dontcha know.
The point of this ramble – and there is one, honest – is that I think DC have their faults and make certain foul-ups, just the same way Marvel do. I’m loving RUNAWAYS, YOUNG AVENGERS, et al, just as you guys are, but I’m also digging BATMAN, FLASH, TEEN TITANS, GOTHAM CENTRAL and quite a few others. Maybe it’s because I’m still a relative newbie to the DC universe that I’m not jaded enough yet to get really pissed off at certain things – sorry, don’t flame me, but I’ve never read the Giffen run on JLA – but I’m enjoying how the story of the Crisis is unfolding so far.
Funnily enough, I am jaded enough with Marvel to feel apprehensive and antsy about HOUSE OF M before I’ve even read it, and I can’t see myself picking up any titles other than those I would normally read. And yet, I’m looking forward to the spin-off titles from COUNTDOWN, as well as the upcoming Crisis mini itself.
Weird, huh? I’m actually looking forward to the chance to expand my DC universe knowledge – and the number of titles I’m reading – via this event; but at the same time, I’m spitting blood and feathers at Marvel for trying to make me spend more money during the HOUSE OF M storyline… I guess familiarity really does breed contempt, doesn’t it?
On a side note, the NEW AVENGERS #8 cover is fantastic – takes me back to those heady days when I picked up my first dusty, dog-eared comic and immediately fell in love with the medium.
Oh, and thanks for the congrats – much appreciated. Myself and Claire are very grateful… shall we have a name the baby competition? (No Daron, DOL is not an acceptable entry!)
IAIN BURNSIDE: Name it X-24!!!
CHRIS DELLOIACONO: Sorry to be the last to do this, but congrats, Logan. I wish you and your family the best! :)
To clear up a few things with my DC rant yesterday. I am still reading a number of books from DC’s imprints. FABLES, Y: THE LAST MAN, SLEEPER, THE LOSERS, and EX MACHINA are some of the best comics on the shelves. It’s the DCU titles that have been going down lately.
I just have no patience for a company that’s in the midst of undoing all of the damage done during the ’90s while creating brand new mayhem today. It’s rather contradictory. I can’t stand to wait around for the backtracking the next editorial team will make to return us to the status quo over the next ten years. It seems like a waste.
WILL COOLING: This is fu**ing stupid. I’ve never read any Giffen JLA but it seems utterly bizarre to A) piss off your older and most established readers B) to it in a way that offers no upside in attracting new readers and C) taking an erstwhile comedy supporting character into an evil genius.
I mean really, what the f*ck is up with that! Imagine Friends Series 9 and for the season opener we see Rachel raped, Ross dead and all along it was Guthrie!!! It would make no f*cking sense! That’s kinda what COUNTDOWN sounds like to me.
Personally, I agree with British Artist Cam Kennedy; Americans take comics way too seriously. Tomorrow of the creators seem obsessed with protecting their characters image… they’re f*cking cartoons dick head!!! Sure do serious stories and but it won’t hurt them to do a light-hearted one every now and again. Look at Judge Dredd, most of his stories are broadly comedic and many take the piss out of the good Judge. Still it doesn’t stop Dredd being the hardest, coolest bastard in comics when he’s needed to be. In real life people act differently in different environments, there’s no reason why superheroes should be any different.
And yes DC comics are boring as are most American comics… maybe you should try 2000AD? A weekly 32 oversized pages of comic goodness with a variety of genres, writing and art styles including with plenty of humour (Judge Dredd, Bec and Kewl, Sinister Dexter and Lobster Random) alongside some of the most moving and powerful comics available. Just buy it will ya!!!!
MANOLIS VAMVOUNIS: I have to say, I love the Friends/Superbuddies analogy!
We can cast them right now:
Joey -> Booster Gold
Chandler -> Elongated Man
Ross -> Blue Beetle
Monica -> Sue Dibny
Rachel -> Mary Marvel
Phoebe -> Fire
and Maxwell Lord can be either Gunther or Naked Guy!
Season 11 has been a doozy, opening with Janice killing Monica in a feat of jealousy and torching her body. The season closes in a chilling cliff-hanger as Naked Guy returns from the dead and guns down Ross for stealing his apartment and because he didn’t want to join his archaeologist’s club against pretty, clothed people.
MIKE MAILLARO: DC has some previews up for the four minis. You need Adobe 7.0 to read them though. Read the DAY OF VENGEANCE one. I swear, I thought it was an April Fool’s joke.
CHRIS DELLOIACONO: Wow! That preview of DAY OF JUDGEMENT… I mean DAY OF VENGEANCE stunk. It’s nearly unreadable. What is up with Eclipso now? Wait, I don’t care.
You could hand me a copy gratis and I wouldn’t read it.
I simply don’t have the stomach to read the previews of any of the other minis after that one. Thanks Mike. ;)
COREN: Don’t tell me I’m the only one who liked it. Those previews have me really interested in all the minis. Well, except THE RANN/THANAGAR WAR, but I didn’t really care about that one to begin with.
MIKE MAILLARO: Let’s put it this way – Grant Morrison owes me big time! If not for my love of Grant, I wouldn’t even be picking up SEVEN SOLDIERS any more. As I told Chris last night (in a church no less): I think I’m paranoid. It really feels like DC is out to destroy everything I love about the company and their characters.
I am so afraid that two months from now, we’ll see Jack Knight don the sheriff’s star… and then go out and rape Courtney or something equally vile.
