MJ: Yeah, he seems like it’s the fourth quarter when he’s in the boardroom and he is just waiting for the ball.
TD: Doesn’t it seem like he’s sitting there like seething? Waiting to explode?
MJ: Yeah!
TD And Trump and George are watching this and seeing that Chris is ready to explode and so they are just like waiting to call on him.
MJ: He’s definitely an interesting guy.
TD: I think everybody, including Audrey (even though she and I didn’t get along as well) I think she means well. I just think that her youth, the fact that she’s so young, she doesn’t know… the only problem I have is that I don’t think that it’s attractive. And she’s not the only one that is flipping out and cursing. I don’t think that is a good strategy. In business, especially in a corporate structure. I work in a very rigid environment. A lot of the ways that people conducted themselves on the show, would not be acceptable where I work.
MJ: You just mean the cursing?
TD: Yeah, the cursing. And just not willing to engage in a conversation without being emotional. I think Audrey allows her emotions to really get the best of her. It’s business. You can’t take things too personally.
MJ: You have now opened the Pandora’s box about what I have wanted to ask you about since we started. Audrey. What is it about this girl…
TD: That rubs everybody the wrong way?
MJ: Yeah. Obviously the Magna’s complain about Stephanie and the Net Worth’s complain about Audrey. What’s the story with her? She’s coming off really good on TV. Why do you guys all hate her?
TD: I don’t hate her. I don’t hate anybody. I think the problem is that there was a maturity issue. I think that’s the problem. I just think the team felt that she wasn’t mature enough to handle what we were doing. There were times that Craig pulled me aside and said things to me that I didn’t like. We engaged in a conversation, I let it go.
MJ: What’s an example of that?
TD: I can’t even remember. You have all these different interactions on TV, you know what I mean? And all of us had pulled each other aside and said what our problems were with one another. She’s the only person that would blow up over that and take it personally. You couldn’t talk to her. You could not tell her anything. If you’re the project manager, she really didn’t like to listen to anybody. If you don’t want to be a team, don’t be on The Apprentice. You know you’re going to be divided onto a team. She didn’t want to listen to anybody.
MJ: I’ll put it to you this way. Let’s say you had the option of starting over again with Audrey or without Audrey, but being down one member if she wasn’t on your team. Would you have preferred to start without her?
TD: I would prefer to start with less people on the team regardless of who the person is. It’s much easier to manage less people. I think that Magna has an advantage. When Verna left and Danny left, they had an advantage. It’s just easier to deal with less people. That’s just a fact.
MJ: Do you think that they were a more cohesive unit than you guys were?
TD: Not initially. Then they got rid of the people that they didn’t like. The people that they didn’t like, they got rid of pretty quick. They didn’t like Verna. Magna didn’t seem to like Verna. They didn’t like Michael. I guess Todd didn’t really have a chance. They became more cohesive. I think they started off as just a wreck. Todd and Danny were fighting… Michael won the task and didn’t do anything?
MJ: Did you like being labeled as Tara, the street smart person? Did you ever go to college?
TD: Yes.
MJ: Why didn’t that come out on the show?
TD: Because that’s the way that they chose to portray it. There was no opportunity to really talk about it. We talked about it but it was during down times. A lot of people did (went to college). John went to college. Craig went to college. Tana went to college. We all talked about our college experiences.
MJ: Did you guys all graduate?
TD: No.
MJ: Maybe that’s why. If you graduated, they would have had to have said it.
TD: Well, they wouldn’t have to had said it. Not in the wonderful world of television. You don’t have to do anything.
MJ: Tell me about the whole college thing. Where did you go?
TD: University of Virginia for four years.
MJ: Why didn’t you graduate?
TD: I get my degree in May. I had a little red-tape issue.
MJ: So you went there for four years, had a red tape issue, took some time off, and now you’re graduating?
TD: Yeah.
MJ: It’s kind of hard working with you because you are so level-headed. I am used to interviewing the bigger personalities from the show. The Danny’s, the Michael’s, and the Kristen’s. How would you define your personality?
TD: I think I am very practical. I think I am savvy. Bright. Sharp. Tough when I have to be. I am not going to attack anyone. I only attack when being attack. I don’t initiate attacks against anybody. I actually like people. I love people. I am very social. I love going out. I love shopping. Dancing. Huge into dancing, I love to dance. I am a tireless networker. I follow-up with almost everybody I meet.
MJ: That’s very interesting to me. I would think to be successful on the Apprentice, you would not be able to get along with people. You would want to kill the competition, and I can’t see you that way.
TD: I am not like that at all.
MJ: Don’t you need that killer instinct?
TD: I don’t know. I have been pretty successful. When I first came on the Apprentice and people were checking everybody out on google and stuff, I had all this stuff on the internet before the Apprentice. Primarily, I have been successful by being charming. I don’t think you have to be a jerk or a cut-throat and ruthless person to succeed. I think that gets you the short-term victory, but I don’t think it takes you anywhere in the long-term. If it does take you somewhere in the long-term, I don’t think you’re happy. Happy people don’t attack other people for no reason.
MJ: Let’s say you are attacked. Then do the claws come out?
TD: Well yeah. I am not going to let anybody push me around.
MJ: Did anybody push you around on the show?
TD: Nobody really bothered me. If they did, I let them know. Straight up and down. It’s not that kind of party.
MJ: Why did you keep saying “I” when you were pitching your mural to Sony? Was that an ego?
TD: Everybody likes to say that it was my ego. I am not going to be disingenuous. Do I have an ego? Yes. Most successful people have an ego. Does Donald Trump have an ego? Of course. I said “I” a lot because I do a lot of public speaking. I just did a keynote speech three weeks ago?
MJ: Was it just a slip of the tongue?
TD: No, it was just force of habit. When you do a keynote speech, you don’t say “we.. Net Worth…” They are inviting you there to talk about yourself. I am used to making formal presentations where I am talking about something that I specifically put together. Then people criticize me. They say that in the boardroom, I didn’t accept any responsibility. I don’t think that’s true. In the boardroom, I said “I made some miscalculations.” I also said by and large, the concept was mine. Why do people just skip over that? I think people were so happy to have a black woman get fired who made a mistake as opposed to being set up by her team, that they like went overboard in criticizing me. Do you know what I mean? Like I think it is sort of reversed.
MJ: I think you are like the anti-Omarosa…
TD: I think people are like ‘see, now we can say a black woman got fired on purpose, got fired because she deserved it. Let’s tout that to the world!’ Then we don’t have to admit that things done in the past were wrong.
MJ: How much did race play a role on The Apprentice in general? Do you think that it did?
TD: I think race plays a role in everything. I just don’t think there is anyway around it. I think The Apprentice is a reflection on the rest of society. Don’t get me wrong. I admit (and I want this for the record) that I made mistakes on the task. I admit that I could have done things better. But at the same time, I think that a lot of the good things that I did were not highlighted because they were afraid that people would think that it was racism as the reason that I got fired. So they had to put a lot of stuff in it so that everybody felt like I deserved to be fired. That way they wouldn’t have to worry about anybody saying that they fired me because I was black. So I have suffered from their fear of that.
MJ: And got kiboshed?
TD: Yeah and got kiboshed because they were so afraid of being called racist that they had to bury me (laughs).
MJ: Here’s what I find interesting and I know you can’t comment on this but I think that a lot of people assume that a woman has to win this time considering Kelly and Bill. The thing that I am wondering about is that while everybody sort of concentrates on the gender, they are not really focused on the race. Do you think that is the case? That people are focusing on the fact that it has to be a woman this time…
TD: Absolutely! I think that there is an enormous amount of pressure on the fact that it has to be a woman and what sucks about that is that if a woman wins, people are going to say that it’s just because she’s a woman. And that’s what’s going to happen. If a woman wins, people are just going to say that she won because she’s a woman. And it’s going to take away from that person’s ability and that’s unfair. Just like if a black person wins, they are going to say ‘oh, they had to pick a black person.’
MJ: Well that’s what happened when Vecepia won Survivor right?
TD: Yup and it’s unfair because if you got to The Apprentice, you done good. What people don’t know is that a lot of us that made it onto the show, we aren’t just successful in our careers but we overcame a lot to get to where we are. That to me is even bigger. Someone who grew up with this rosy life and had their parents give them money and they became really successful, I am not as impressed as I am with somebody like me who had a cross burned on their house when I was two years old. People tried to burn our house down because we were the first black family to move onto the street. I got called all kinds of names.
MJ: Where was this?
TD: Hillside, New Jersey. 1978. They didn’t put the cross on the lawn. They nailed it to the house so that the entire lawn would burn down. I’ve had so many things happen to me in my life and a lot of people on Net Worth have. We overcame. To me that’s character. It’s easy to succeed when you haven’t had to endure anything.
MJ: Is that what you see in Magna?
TD: No, I am not saying that. I don’t know enough about them to say that. But I am just saying that there are a lot of successful people out there and people are saying ‘well why didn’t they make the show?’ It’s easy to succeed if you have had a rosy life.
MJ: Tell me about the other people on the show and who you would hire.
TD: I love Tana, just too darn happy for me. Even though I am happy most of the time, she is just too sweet. I can’t have anybody too sweet, I gotta have a little edge.
MJ: That’s funny because initially I thought that she was going to be wicked, just from the previews.
TD: That’s what I thought too before she opened her mouth.
MJ: I don’t know why that is. It must be the short hair.
TD: Probably. She’s too happy. Too jubilant.
MJ: Yeah, but I think you’re always happy too.
TD: Yeah but mine’s like different. Hers is more of a sappy sweet. Mine is more of a sly happiness (laughs). Then you got John. John’s too conservative. We used to debate all the time. Our political views. He’s very right.
MJ: No wonder I liked him.
TD: Are you kidding me? I thought you were from Canada.
MJ: I am which is why I am so ostracized and why I am running reality websites!
TD: Yeah, so you would like him. So we’ll avoid politics. That’s when the claws come out.
MJ: And I am a poli sci major.
TD: I majored in government.
MJ: Then let’s leave it alone.
TD: John… too conservative. You have to have somebody that you feel like you can consistently get along well with. You don’t want to be butting heads with your Apprentice.
MJ: Right…
TD: Audrey’s too emotional.
MJ: Even if I gave you a million dollars to take Audrey as your Apprentice, I don’t think that you would.
TD: I would take the money. Peace of mind and happiness or money (laughs). No, I am joking. I would take her for a million dollars. Are you kidding me?
MJ: I think that sly smile of yours would have daggers in it if she was your Apprentice. There would be like arsenic in her morning coffee.
TD: No, that’s more Kristen.
MJ: Okay, so what about Kristen?
TD: Talks on that damn cell phone too much! That’s ’cause I hang out with her every now and again. Talks on that phone way too much!
MJ: Wait til you read her interview! It’s an opus.
TD: Is it just rantings?
MJ: I thought that Danny’s was the best one that I have ever done until I started typing Kristen’s. When I was doing it, I had no idea that it was that insane. Then when I played it back, it was just insanity.
TD: They act like she doesn’t get along with anybody, but she gets along with everybody.
MJ: What about Craig?
TD: Craig sold me down the river. I told him in advance that I was bringing him into the boardroom. They just showed some old footage of me saying that I was going to bring John and Audrey and I told him in advance that I was bringing him in. He knew. Then he got in the boardroom and he said he was surprised and I was like WHAT?! That’s why I had a weird look on my face.
MJ: What do you think about John?
TD: A lot of people on the Apprentice aren’t strategic. They’re smart people, they’re talented, they are hard-working. John is strategic.
MJ: Give me an example of his strategy.
TD: See, the thing is that they didn’t show some of the stuff. John is strategic in that he was trying to force Audrey into giving him some kind of direction. So that if they lost the task (which he figured they would since he thought that she was weak), he figured she would bring him into the boardroom and he would say ‘well you agreed with this.’ Or that she directed him to do it. Audrey didn’t give him any direction because she didn’t know what to do (laughs). Not because she was being strategic back. She just didn’t know! Remember, she didn’t know. She had no idea.
MJ: There’s people on every season that just don’t have a clue.
TD: They know what to tell people to do. John thought she was trying to set him up by not giving him any direction. No, au contraire. She just didn’t know! (Laughs). The biggest evidence of that was when she said that she wanted to listen to everything that the team had accomplished that day. Who cares? Tomorrow’s the task! You need to be asking them what they are going to be doing tomorrow! How they are going to win the task tomorrow.
MJ: When you were watching the show, you must have been dying of laughter.
TD: It was pretty funny because if she was more strategic, she would have tried to befriend John. Lull him into a false sense of security. Pretend like she’s working with him. Sat down with him and said ‘John, how do you think we should handle this?’ If she was strategic, she would have pretended that all was forgiven. A strategic person would not have stormed into the backroom, said their stomach was hurting, started crying about how their life was hard. A strategic person would have come up like Stephanie did. Now, Stephanie, I don’t think was being strategic when she did it but it worked.
MJ: Oh, the whole crying thing when she tried to make up with Magna.
TD: Yeah. Audrey should have come up and said all is forgiven, what comes up in the boardroom… stays in the boardroom. And then if she would have done that, John would have had a new respect for her because he would have thought that she finally learned not to take things personally like she has been doing the whole time and things would have been better. Heck, they might have actually won! But to come up and say “F you” and then expect him to help you on the task the next day, that’s not human nature.
MJ: You are a fascinating personality, I have to tell you.
TD: Now I made my share of mistakes, but I was smart enough to know to be nice to everybody.
MJ: And there goes my theory. When we were talking about it earlier where you were like, “I like people” and “I don’t think you can be successful without networking.”
TD: You can, but look at Trump. As tough as Trump is, why do you think he plays golf? The main reason people play golf is networking. It’s like the most boring game in the world.
MJ: Do you play golf?
TD: I do and I suck, but I go out there because you know who’s out there? Rich people who are successful. While you are walking to the 9th hole, or riding in the cart, what are you doing? You’re talking to them. You’re interacting with them. So my thing is so I didn’t make it as far I wanted to on the Apprentice, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I would have liked to be the next Apprentice, but to me like not making it just motivates me to work harder and become better than whoever becomes the Apprentice. I feel like this is a war and I may have lost this particular battle (by losing the task), but you name anybody who is successful who hasn’t messed up or lost before. The true test is who gets up and recovers and does better. They’ll be some people who will be successful. Maybe they will host a show on E! Maybe they’ll pose in some magazine. That’s not any kind of real mark. You’ll see. It will be interesting to see who goes in which direction.
MJ: It will, I still like your Kendra pick.
TD: I just think that she is the most level-headed. The truth is that they don’t show people much. And you see that she is smart enough not to step up and become the project manager.
MJ: Who do you like the most on the show?
TD: I like Kristen, I like John. Danny.
MJ: Who do you like the least?
TD: Right now Mark Burnett, if you want an honest answer. That’s about as honest as it gets. Besides Mark Burnett, who do I like the least? I am so over her (Audrey). I am over her. It’s not about trying to get people extra press. I am going to say Alex because he got the better of me. He got such a pass on that task when he really didn’t have a clue. It wasn’t like he said “I think we need to sit down and develop a marketing strategy where we are going to target the community.” He was stumped, the team was hounding him, they didn’t have anything up on the wall, it was late at night…
MJ: What did you think when he was trying to talk all ‘hood’ to them on the street?
TD: Oh, that was so condescending. I also wasn’t a big fan of the use of a big black fist with a diamond ring. I thought that was a little stereotypical to say the least. I just thought that was pretty bad.
MJ: Did you ask Craig what he thought about the fist?
TD: Oh, I think we all thought that it was bad. I mean frankly, Sony is so full of it because they were all like ‘we want to send a positive message,’ meanwhile they sell Grand Theft Auto, where if you kill a hooker, you get extra points. John actually said that and they edited it out. He said that these are the people that make a game where you kill hookers and you get extra points.
MJ: So is it Alex that you like the least?
TD: On the one hand I am torn, because I kind of feel bad for Audrey because I just don’t think that she knows any better. Do you know what I mean? I don’t know if she does things on purpose. I just don’t think that she knows. Like I don’t she knows all the time what she is doing.
MJ: Who would you fire next?
TD: Alex. I’d fire Alex. That’s just because he got the better of me in that task. I can say whoever I want, Alex dammit!
