NOTE: The individual opinions of each Roundtable contributor are their own, and is not representative of anybody but that contributor.
ADDITIONAL NOTE: This is Iain. This is the Roundtable. This is the last Roundtable until August. This is due to my impending limited-edition World Tour of Manchester, Glasgow, Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and New York. This is not helped any by outstanding university assessments, work-related nonsense and a crippling drinking habit. This is not the end. This is the beginning. This is the calm before the Roundtable returns, my new Nexus column kicks off and I take charge of the Wrestling site with the help of an old friend… Stick around, enjoy the sights and the sites, and I’ll see you real soon…
X-Men 3 script review [Click: Here]
“VERTIGO” COREN: Holy crap, can you say train wreck? Oh man, I’m losing hope for X3 faster each day. This can’t be the real deal. Can it? Can it? And it’s pretty obvious they’re killing off the Professor, which is f*cktarded when they’re adding Juggernaut in the same damn movie. Kiss the half brother origin goodbye, not that they apparently spend much time on him to begin with.
IAIN “THE FLY” BURNSIDE: Let’s kill off everyone in the first five minutes, except for Wolverine. Then for the rest of the film he can sing the entire score of the H.M.S. Pinafore, interspersed with dancing a merry jig and yelling “I am so great! I am so great! Me, me, me! Everyone loves me! I am so great!”
Honestly, I pay my taxes for this? This is what passes for entertainment these days? Woozle-wozzle?
COREN: Wait, you pay taxes for this? I’d be writing my government angry letters.
I see killing off Cyclops. A final F U to Perry White’s son (who?). But the Professor? Depowering Mystique? Meh. If this is how it goes down, count me out. Even if it is just Wolverine singing show tunes
ANDY “HOLD ME THRILL ME KISS ME KILL ME” LOGAN: There are parts of it that show excellent promise – if done properly, a visual of super powered eeeeee-vil mutants taking part in a mass prison breakout should be mind-blowing.
Also, I like the idea of going back in time and building on the dynamic between Mags and Chuck.
As for the killing off of certain characters? Meh – whatever. I wouldn’t necessarily blame James Marsden’s performance for Cyclops being such a boring, insipid character – I would blame the fact the character has been written so poorly in the previous two films – but if it serves the purpose of giving more screen time to newer, infinitely more interesting X-Men, I can deal with that just fine.
The biggest worry, however, is the amount of story elements that appear to be involved. Dark Phoenix? Sentinels? A mass eeeee-vil mutant uprising? Any one of these is a strong enough story that could potentially make a great film by itself, but the danger with (possibly) throwing them all into the mix is that you’re left with three under-developed and wasted concepts, squashed into one unholy two hour mess.
How much do YOU want to spend on HOUSE OF M and INFINITE CRISIS? [Details: Here]
TIM “ANGEL OF HARLEM” STEVENS: Newsarama broke down the cost of each of the big 2’s crossovers this summer. Scary!
Thankfully they didn’t do SEVEN SOLDIERS. I lack the internal fortitude to learn the truth on that one. Actually, you know what, no I don’t.
Here, we go. Total cost = $91.72 American (plus tax). That’s a little rough. But, considering that it unfolds over a period of 14 months, that makes your per month cost about $6.55 and I can live with that.
COREN: Jeeze. I guess I’m glad I’m just sticking to the main minis for INFINITE CRISIS and HOUSE OF M (and my regular books). Which is still setting me back like $120.
KEVIN “ELEVATION” MAHONEY: Speaking of saying goodbye to cash, lots of fans will soon lose money on the very well done Batman Begins film, which I just saw for free.
COREN: Damnit, you suck.
Not that I can’t see it for free too, but that’s beside the point. I’ve heard great things from everyone who’s seen it, what did you think?
KEVIN MAHONEY: Heh, heh,
Well lemme see… the film owes a lot to THE LONG HALLOWEEN/mob-tied Loeb stories (with sides of YEAR ONE and DARK KNIGHT RETURNS). It is zero percent cheese with the most martial arts of any Batman incarnation. It will absolutely shut up anyone who ever thought Goyer couldn’t write for film. And it has the first mentally healthy female lead in the entire Bat-film canon.
On the minus side, Lucius Fox’s name is used, but not his character. And there were two plot holes in the film, one detective one (minor) and one science one (major) but given comic book film track records, it’s gotta be well above average. I liked it more than Hellboy (better acting if a tamer plot) but not as much as Sin City or either Spidey film.
Hey, what a coincidence! Batman Begins is out! Thoughts?
JAMIE “ALL I WANT IS YOU” HATTON: Oh – I hated it – everything was wrong… there was not a drop of neon – not one cheezy one liner – no bat nipples – everything that made Batman & Robin the Hamlet-esque masterpiece that it was.
Can you believe that Christian Bale played Bruce Wayne as both a serious business man as well as a playboy who appears devoid of moral scruples?
How in the name of all that is Bat-Holy did they think Michael Caine’s caring, respecting, father figure style would swing?
And Thomas Wayne, father of the Wayne Dynasty comes across as altruistic and wholeheartedly good… who came up with this!?
Oh, and finally – let’s not forget the villains, who happen to be perfectly created to fit a real world style, and did not have a single drop of ‘over the top’ one liners, outrageous costumes, but actually inspired fear and loathing!?
If this is the way that comic book movies are headed – fine, I’ll have to accept it as a legitimate form of entertainment, but I won’t be happy about it. Between Begins, Sin City, Spidey 2, and X-Men 2 – I guess all my fond memories of Dolph Lundgrin as The Punisher will have to go right out the window…
ANDY LOGAN: Bat nipples rule!!!
MATT “DESIRE” MORRISON: I swear to whatever gods are listening that if you two are not joking I am going to have to reach through this screen and pimpslap the stupid out of you.
TIM STEVENS: Let’s be honest, all nipples rule. Especially Jamie’s.
Bale deserves copious props. He played a Bruce Wayne (especially when he gets to Gotham) that I enjoyed so much that I actually wish there was more out of the mask action for him. Even Keaton didn’t make that happen for me.
The villains were well cast and utilized and, as Jamie mentioned, not over the top at all. And how cool was it to have a Mr. Zsasz cameo and a semi-large role for Falcone? Best part: even with all those villains, the movie never felt overstuffed (see Batman and Robin) or sacrificed Bruce Wayne/Batman to highlight them (see all 4 movies of the previous Bat series).
The movie was not perfect of course. The first hour, while very cool from a comic book fan perspective, could have used some tightening. The editing on the fight sequences (with the exception of Bats first encounter with Falcone’s gang at the pier) was often so quick that it was impossible to see what was happening. In particular, the Chinese prison sequence was impossible to make out who was who.
Besides that though colour me magnificently pleased.
KEVIN MAHONEY: Backs away from Jamie and Parallax quickly and quietly… I am a married man after all.
And yes, the movie does rule. Bale is the best Wayne ever. Caine’s Alfred, though the most Americanized version of the character, is also the most 3-D and subtle. The villains were evil and not foppish (except in the case of obvious mental instability) and there were only 2 plot holes the whole film. I can’t see this not taking off as a franchise. I really can’t.
IAIN BURNSIDE: Well… yeah. They’re already planning the second and third films, heavily rumoured to feature Joker and Two-Face (with an outside shot at the Batman/Superman movie in about a decade). And let me just add my Bat-love to the mix here. Thank you, thank you, thank you to Bale, Nolan, et al for not only making such a hugely enjoyable movie but for also restoring my love for Batman at a time when the comics have me so down on the character. And let’s hear it for the wonderful supporting cast, in particular Neeson and Caine, who both added so much with so little and subtle performances. Oh, and Oldman. And of course, Freeman. Hell, even Holmes! In my opinion, there was nothing wrong and everything right with this movie.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to return some videotapes…
PAUL “MYSTERIOUS WAYS” SEBERT: Ok, I’ll keep it short and sweet. Batman Begins is really one of those movies that has truly exceeded all expectations. It’s probably my second favorite comic-based movie after last year’s spectacular Spider-Man II, and easily the best of the Bat-movies. It has an excellent cast, solid acting, great special effects, and a wonderful plot.
Yeah… it’s freaking awesome.
Sony/Warner developing a DCU MMORPG [Details: Here]
TIM STEVENS: Forget about that stuff; let’s talk about how adorable Mr. Hatton is:
IAIN BURNSIDE: Snitsky??!?
ANDY LOGAN: Woah! Hatton is moonlighting in the WWE.
*bows before the incredible physical specimen*
RUMOUR: Mark Waid to return to THE FLASH? [Credit: All the Rage]
JESSE “I STILL HAVEN’T FOUND WHAT I’M LOOKING FOR” BAKER: Keep Waid far, far, far, far, far, far, far away from THE FLASH. In retrospect, with Geoff John’s work on the franchise in mind, Waid was a disaster of epic proportions with the way that he treated the franchise.
For someone who is supposed to be a Silver Age fanboy, Waid’s run on THE FLASH was outright disrespectful of the cool elements of the Silver Age Flash that GJ revived and reinvented during his run. Ramrodding the Speed Force down the throats of the readers with such force that it made JMS’s “Magic Spider” BS look tame in comparison, treating the Rogues like worthless cannon fodder to the extent that he massacred the whole lot of them just so he could reinvent Abra Kadabra into the same sort of “Dark Image Psychopath Villains” paint by numbers mould that Waid bitched about in KINGDOM COME. Let alone the other paint by numbers “Dark Image Psychopath Villains” villains (see Savitar, Chillbane, Colbalt Blue, and Neron) that Waid created to replace the Rogues when he killed off.
Sure he de-asshole-ified Wally West, gave us Impulse, brought Linda Park and Pied Pipper into their own as Wally’s supporting cast, and got Flash elevated to top tier super-hero status again but still, having him write the book again would be the equivalent of bringing John Byrne to write the book and have him declare every Flash story since the death of Iris Allen never happened.
MATT MORRISON: You know what? I agree with Jesse’s assessment of Waid’s original FLASH run. And I think he does have a point about how Waid did treat the Rogues like cannon fodder.
You know who else agrees with that? Mark Waid. Or more than likely, he would. I remember his introduction to “Underworld Unleashed” in TPB form and how the story he eventually wrote was quite different from the one he intended. Originally, all the villains were to be brought back in new “kewl” format. But somewhere along the line, doing research as to how they should be changed, Waid realized that there were some good characters that had just never been used properly. He’s been one of the biggest proponents of the Silver Age classics since then and, I think, has redeemed the mistakes he made in the past. I know he has spoken of his early work someone negatively… in fact; his biggest regret is that he was responsible for killing off Ice and how he’d love to bring her back if DC Editorial were actually interested in doing so.
But Waid on Flash? Much as I loved his later run, I think someone else does need to keep Wally going. Otherwise the book that Waid helped jump-start and Johns improved upon could come to a dead stop, ala Claremont’s X-Men.
PAUL SEBERT: Hey, if Waid’s returning to THE FLASH, you can sign me up. From the “Return of Barry Allen”, to the coming of Impulse, Waid’s run on the book had more milestones than you can shake a stick at.
And who knows, maybe he’ll get Bart out of that yellow and red monkeysuit.
I’d respond to Jesse, but to be honest he kind of defeated his own argument. I guess in Baker’s view, offending the sensibilities of some Silver Age fans is somehow so unforgivable that it negates making the Flash a top-tier DC hero.
Anyway, I just realized a major problem here.
The last three FLASH writers of notice were Waid, Mark Millar, and Geoff Johns.
For the past decade or so, Flash has been this buzz book in which the guy writing it becomes the next big star in comics. Using buzz over the book to move on to big league projects and Jesse Baker’s enemies list.
Putting Waid back on the title seems to be bucking this trend as well, let’s face it he’s already done all of that. Why not use the book to prop-up a relatively new guy?
IAIN BURNSIDE: Joshua Middleton!!
ANDY LOGAN: Andy Logan!!
TIM STEVENS: Martin Lawrence!!
KEVIN MAHONEY: Better yet… Bill S. Preston Esq. and “Ted” Theodore Logan!
Co-writers!
TIM STEVENS: Ooo… I recognize the superiority of that choice. After all, San Dimas High Football does rule.
WILL “DISCOTHEQUE” COOLING: Taking Paul S’ point (as someone who gave FLASH up after one Johns arc) would say Andy Diggle be a good choice?
IAIN BURNSIDE: Wasn’t there a rumour a couple of weeks ago about Diggle going exclusive to Marvel?
JESSE BAKER: IIRC Diggle debunked said rumor….
I’d personally think that Gail Simone is the only real choice. She can do humor (which is a big part of THE FLASH) and she fits the “star in waiting” criteria for the book, as someone here said that FLASH is….
KEVIN MAHONEY: God no, anyone but her. If BIRDS OF PREY and VILLAINS UNITED are any indication, she hasn’t the grit or the sci-fi edge to do FLASH. I mean I wouldn’t hand the keys to that car to Rob Liefeld, but c’mon, I’d trust the guys who wrote HERO and/or ARKHAM ASYLUM: LIVING HELL a lot faster. Too bad Dan is Marvel only :(
PAUL SEBERT: Actually having read Gail’s work on DEADPOOL and the GUS BEEZER one-shots, I’d much rather see her writing IMPULSE.
Details on the new FANTASTIC FOUR cartoon… and what the hell are the Marvel Babies? [Click: Here]
MIKE “ALL BECAUSE OF YOU” MAILLARO: I actually like these character designs… but I am much more curious about the Marvel Babies sign in the background. Baby Cap? I am definitely disturbed by that one!
COREN: Can’t be any worse than the mid ’90s version of the Fantastic Four filled with cheesy lines one would expect from the ’60s… Can it? I think there’s a definite Japanese animation influence going on there, which may or may not work. Doom looks kind of strange with his face elongated. But it definitely works for Reed.
Baby Spider-Man, Baby Thor, Baby Captain America, and either Baby Spider-Woman or Spider-Girl were all I could make out in that picture. WTF?
PAUL SEBERT: Actually the ’90s Fantastic Four cartoon really wasn’t that bad if you ignored the cheesy theme song. Most of the episodes were more or less straight-up adaptations of early issues of the comic.
Oh and that’s clearly a baby version of Spidey & Friends Spider-Girl, a pony-tailed doppelganger that no one can quite account for the existence of.
MIKE MAILLARO: They seem to be a line of infant clothing. Very odd…
JAMIE HATTON: I bet baby X-23 is totally hot…
Okay, yeah – I had to make the joke. Sorry.
Anyway, the Marvel cartoons have always been decent. I have faith.
