Nice response to the “Bring On The Bad Guys” Column! Thanks to everyone who offered their takes. In fact, here they are! (My 2 cents will be in black.) See if you notice our common thread, proving that great minds think alike!
Adam — Got to admit I am 100% behind you on the lack of villains in the Civil War story. There are so many guys who should be taking advantage of it and yet we see very little or throw away stuff like Thunderbolts. My Supervillain Illuminati:
Dr Doom. Can’t fault you here, Doom would own the other supervillains. Even if there was a member or two who outclassed him in power no one outclasses him in smarts. Doom could have Galactus on his team and still have a pre-planned way to take him down.
Abomination. A character in need of some love in my opinion. Sometimes he is written perfectly and other times he’s a waste. The one guy who can truly go toe to toe with the Hulk should have a place on a super villain A-list.
Hobgoblin. Roderick Kingsley needs a return to regular stories and this would be the perfect time. Why settle for the insanity (and erratic genius) of Osborn when you can have a infinitely saner Goblin. he might not have Osborn’s scientific smarts but the guy is a criminal mastermind. This could be his break out story to finally become something other than ‘the knock off Green Goblin’ to casual readers.
Quicksilver. Again, someone who could be pushed to the fore here as a new villain for a new millennium. Take the right spin on this often misunderstood character and you could have a major threat on your hands. He could always have a new Brotherhood to back him up as well.
Ultron. Ok, so I’m a sucker for Ultimate Alliance… I can’t see a mega villain group without the most badass of evil robots. He might not have long term plans to share power but a temporary alliance with the others would be beneficial. This would have to be a ‘proper’ Ultron, adamantium/vibranium and all.
Super Skrull (or some kind of Super Skrull if ‘the’ is not available) Got to have the ‘weird alien member’ who possibly has galactic interests in manipulating Earths villains and heroes. He is smart and powerful enough to be a match for most heroes whilst the constant threat of his own agenda would be fascinating reading.
I’d love to work out some way of sticking The Void in to combat the Sentry but I cant figure it out… Sentry stories make my brain hurt.
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“If I want a Nazi, I’ll get Tony Stark”¦” –Dhaise |
Good list Adam! There’s a couple of interesting folks on your list I want to comment on. The Abomination could be a better character with some attempt at characterization. There have been a couple guys who’ve tried to do something with him, but for the most part they’ve always been content to make Abomination be Hulk’s version of Killer Croc. “Arrrg! I’ll hit you with a rock! A big rock!” So that gives your team a personal powerhouse in case they’re ever infiltrated and someone with some Russian espionage ties, if I’m not mistaken. He’s the manly, gamma-mutated evil version of Black Widow! And I’m with you on Hobgoblin. I think they could do a lot more with the character. I don’t mind an Illuminati with Norman Osborn because of the insanity he’d bring, but in your lineup a Hobgoblin taking on something of a Kingpin role would be pretty cool too.
Ryan — Great list for a villainous Illuminati. I’ve recently been thinking about who’s should be in a villainous Illuminati myself. At first I thought of making my list as a man for man counter of the “heroic” Illuminati, but that would have meant putting Attuma and possibly Man-Ape on the team, so I decided against that quickly. Instead I went for a list of manipulators, no one on this list because he’s a tough guy (so no Taskmaster or Terrax), although pretty much everyone on my team could put up a great fight. I also tried to stay away from true nuts who might just as soon wipe out humanity as rule it (so no Green Goblin or Red Skull). Here’s my list:
Dr. Doom: Why? He is Doom! (Sorry, just read Secret Wars for the first time a couple of weeks ago.) King, scientific genius, mystic… Seriously, the only reason Doom shouldn’t make this group is because no other villains are his equal.
Mr. Sinister: the one field of science Doom doesn’t seem to be strong in on is biology, so he can fill that role nicely.
Baron Zemo: I’m not buying the reformed villain bit. I don’t want to buy the reformed villain bit. His contribution would be charisma. A man with no powers who can persuade gods to follow him. He could throw together a super villain army whenever a throwdown with some heroes was called for.
Mandarin: I won’t lie, I didn’t think of him myself until I saw your article, but he’s a good fit.
Baron Mordo: while Doom know the mystic arts, an expert would be a good idea, and he seems to be a decent fit.
Viper: the resources of Hydra and Madripor’s crime circles, that would be reason enough, but also at least one of the Illuminati teams should have a woman on the team, right?
Sebastian Shaw: through the Hellfire Club (I’m not buying Sunspot being in charge of that) and Shaw Industries, he would bring legit business and political ties to the group.
Thanks for the well-thought out list, Ryan. I wish I’d have thought of Viper. I do think a woman’s touch (or manipulation!) would be a key component in this Illuminati. Taking over the world tends to be such a testosterone soaked task. Doom, Sinister, Zemo, and Mandarin gives you a very strong tech-based core. I thought of Mordo too but my problem with him is that I can’t recall seeing Mordo ever get involved with anyone except Dr. Strange. I don’t know what he’s ever taken on the Avengers, or even the Defenders (except, again, for Strange). He’s certainly never engaged the X-folks in battle. So he seemed just a little too limited in scope. But then again, this would be the kind of story to allow him to finally branch out and become a player in Marvel Universe. If I were writing your group I’d give Mordo a reason to be there, maybe he’s the only one who knows where the Asgardians have gone (Joe Quesada certainly has no idea) or maybe he’s just bluffing, but Doom wouldn’t miss the opportunity to draw from whatever power Mordo might have a line on. And Sebastian Shaw is just a cool dude.
Dhaise — Who would I pick for the super villain Illuminati? Doom is first. Doom is always first. So says Doom! Mandarin is also ‘In’. (and you’re correct, his rings are alien tech) Sinister would be a good fit, but if not him, I want Omega Red or Exodus tossed in there. Omega Red was last seen (I think) trying to be an up and coming power broker, and Exodus was best used as the ultimate sycophant. Green Goblin is out, Puma is in. Puma has more untapped potential and isn’t used every 3 issues. If anything, Puma could be our ‘moral center’ in that he’s often portrayed as almost noble. Seeing him descend into nastiness could be the interesting trip in and of itself. Red Skull is out. If I want a Nazi, I’ll get Tony Stark or bring back Baron Blood. Instead, let’s grab Kang. Kang feels more like a universal menace than the Red Skull. Mandrill — because nobody ever picks Mandrill, damn it! Other possibilities would include Malice (from Black Panther, not the X-Men), Cassandra Nova, and/or Moonstone.
Thanks Dhaise! I think Omega Red would be a cool lieutenant for Exodus, who I could see getting a seat at Doom’s Round Table. Your points on Puma are very intriguing. He’s one of the more interesting and believable Native American characters (and a minority to boot!). I like that he’s usually drawn to athletic yet human proportions. I’ve known a few Native Americans in my life, and I’ve seen Tatanka on WWE, and none of them are built as ridiculously as the Proudstar boys and most other comic renditions of Native Americans. There’s a little Indian mysticism there with Puma too. Kang and Doom in the same room is mind-blowing! And I’ll give you Mandrill before I let you use Cassandra Nova. No Morrison weirdness! Just say no, damn you! Or I’ll make Frank Quitely go to your house and redraw you with strange jowls and a face like a bas case of the mumps (because, you know, that’s how all the characters he draws look).
Daniel — Here are my picks for a superteam of villains:
Doom – for all the reasons you listed, he HAS to be the leader of this group. This guy is the boogeyman of the Marvel Universe, the one guy you absolutely do not want showing up. A must.
Attuma – C’mon, this guy lives for conquest. This sort of thing would be right up his alley. Besides, he hasn’t been used in a while.
The Mad Thinker – I see this guy as the Calculator of the group. He can compute probabilities in his mind based on the data he has. Should be perfect for any group effort.
Justin Hammer – Someone to represent the non-powered and low-powered thugs of the Marvel villain set. After all, he’s bankrolled more of them than anyone else. He also has experience covering up clandestine dealings, which I think would be a plus.
Sebastian Shaw, the Black King of the Hellfire Club – I agree that the group should have an expert on mutants, and actually I think Sinister is the better pick. But just to be different, Shaw is generally more active in plans of conquest than Sinister, and is already the head of a large multinational organization.
Enchantress – We really do need a lady in the group, and this one has experience with secret plots, double dealing, and fighting large groups of heroes. Also, is probably the most powerful of the group, being an Asgardian.
Daniel, that’s a good squad! I wasn’t sure if Hammer was still alive in the Marvel Universe, but I’ve always enjoyed his appearances, especially during the good ol’ days of Iron Man. You might have the richest group of evildoers that I’ve seen, with Doom running a country and Hammer and Shaw as captains of their industries. Attuma and Enchantress probably have access to treasure too! My only minor quibble is Enchantress, and not because she’s not a worthy pick but because Quesada let Bendis’ pet Oming write the Asgardians out of the Marvel Universe and they haven’t brought them back yet. But hey, if it gets the ball rolling towards reconnecting fair Midgard with Bifrost, the Rainbow Bridge, I’m down with that. For Glory! For Honor! For Asgard! FOR GODDAMN CONTINUITY!
Jim — I love the idea, Jeff, and I have thought about this possibility myself.
Doom of course. (how can it not have Doom I mean he’s the all around best Marvel villain and would take Reed’s place)
Magneto: Leader of the mutant faction. (He would be in place of Xavier and be missing at points in time as we know)
Red Skull: (now of course we know he might not have joined right away but heck he fits)
Kingpin: (leader of the underworld portion and really he fits this group)
Loki: Of course the god of Mischief might not last too long but he brings the magic and all.
Ultron: This robot would fit right in with this group. Brings in some extra brains and more.
Some characters the could fit t0o:
Mandarin
Mole Man
Dormammu
Sebastian Shaw
But I went 6 just like the hero group. :)
Jim, I passed on the opportunity before so I’ll do it this time around: WHAT IS THE FACINATION WITH ROBOTS?!? To me, killer robots are just a weak crutch for when a writer has a block or needs a filler issue until he or she can get something going. And the father/son dynamic between Hank Pym and Ultron just kinda creeps me out for some reason. Somebody please explain to me how Hank Pym is still alive and useful characters like Hawkeye and Jack of Hearts are dead? Jack of Hearts is hella cool. Hank Pym is a wife beater who can’t figure out what kind of hero he wants to be so he changes his name and costume every three years. I’m begging somebody — anybody — at Marvel to write a story where Pym shrinks himself and ALL of the Ultrons down to the Microverse and leave them there, right next to the Ultraverse. On to a couple of your others, I am going to disagree on Kingpin. Fisk is a fat thug who’s just got a knack for avoiding the big legal takedown (until the end of the Bendis and the start of the Brubaker runs on Daredevil). I think a guy like the Owl, Justin Hammer, or Adam’s suggestion of Hobgoblin earlier is just more dynamic than what Kingpin brings to the table. And Mole Man? At first I really wanted to make fun of that, but now that I think about it, why not? The Super Skrull suggestion is about the only other Fantastic Four-oriented pick I’ve seen (Doom doesn’t count, Doom will take on anyone — even the Great Lakes Avengers). And that gives you a bunch of cannon fodder with the Mole Man’s army, so I’m OK with that! Good job!
Paul — As far as the Villains Illuminati are concerned, the problem is that every list I come up with pretty much looks like the Acts of Vengeance core-team (+ Sinister, Osborn & Leader). Which would make it Loki, Doom, Red Skull, Magneto (although at the moment, like through most of his history, he’s kind of filling a grey-area), Wizard, Mandarin, Kingpin, Kang, Sinister, Osborn, Leader.
It might be interesting to see Namor on-board (playing both sides, just because he can). He was invited to join the original group anyway. And maybe someone like Count Nefaria. I can’t see anyone cosmic joining the crew, because guys like Thanos, Magus, etc., just wouldn’t bother with Earth-villains.
Sadly other than that, like I said, my list just looks too much like Acts of Vengeance. And much too big to be workable. So I’d narrow it down a bit to Doctor Doom, Red Skull, Mandarin, Kingpin, Sinister, Kang, Leader and Namor.
But…..
If the concept was tweaked a little, to say…. a Marvel version of the Villains United Society, then you might have something different. That wasn’t just the “evil masterminds” because you had the strike-force part of the team (Deathstroke and Black Adam) and nutjobs like Dr. Psycho. The direct equivalents would be something like Doom (the premier Marvel villain, like Luthor is for DC), Bullseye or Taskmaster (take your pick – kill anyone with anything, a la Deathstroke), Nefaria (massively powerful, supremely arrogant like Black Adam, but without being an idiot like Graviton), Viper (manipulative bitch, like Talia), Purple Man (mind-controlling f*ck-head as per Dr. Psycho) and…. well…. Marvel doesn’t really have their own version of the Calculator. You’re looking for someone who can manipulate/control other villains, with all the contacts, but that would be subservient to Doom. I can’t think of anyone (you can tell I really thought this out before suggesting it, can’t you?). Damn. The nearest equivalent would be someone like Black Box, but he’s currently helping Cable out. Ah, what the hell. We’ll go with him.
So that makes the core group Doctor Doom, Count Nefaria, Black Box, Viper, Purple Man and either Bullseye or Taskmaster.
Paul, that’s a pretty original lineup. I hadn’t thought of Nefaria originally, but I like that choice and I like the reasoning–because Graviton is a total imbecile. As I said before, I like Viper bringing her underworld connections and that manipulative bitch vibe. Purple Man is SUCH a mind-controlling f*ck-head. I think Fabian Nicieza actually took him almost too far in Thunderbolts when it was revealed that he made Andreas Von Strucker flay the skin of his sister, the sister Killgrave “suggested” he kill, and wrap the hilt of his sword with it. That was a bit much, in my opinion, for the main line of Marvel offerings. But if this Marvel Illuminati were a MAX line book, that would be a great choice. The shit he put Luke Cage’s wife through makes him a thoroughly disgusting bastard. Take Bullseye AND Taskmaster. They could be like the evil version of Green Arrow and Green Lantern — Hard Travellin’ Assholes! Besides, any book with Doom and Taskmaster in it regularly will outsell anything on the shelf not drawn by Jim Lee. But if you get Jim Lee to draw this”¦man, Quesada would maybe invite you to join him and Bendis in their monthly swim through the pool of money they’ve made on all of us buying their over-hyped crossover every month. I was disappointed that the Marvel Zombies title wasn’t just a collection of yearbook style pictures of us Marvel Zombies, shelling over our cash at the shops across the globe for superhero books that don’t have any supervillains anymore.
Have you figured out the common thread by now? If not, here’s the answer:
Next time, more of this interactive stuff! Tell friends! Tell enemies! Tell creators! (I’d love to get some involvement from them! Even Fabian!) I’ll figure out a scenario and post my reasons, and then wait with baited breath for your great ideas! And thanks to all of you for not suggestion Stryfe in any of your picks! Because I’d have to send Liefield to your house and make him draw you with giant shoulder pads so you’d never be able to leave your bathroom with the giant boulder on the floor so he doesn’t have to attempt to draw your feet.
Welcome to my nightmare.
