EDITOR’S NOTE:This is column is late entirely due to me. My grandfather has become very ill as of late, including his heart stopping at one point, and that has left me distracted. Still, we should be caught up by end of day Tuesday and ready to deliver you a fresh, on time column Thursday as usual. Unfortunately that means no images for this one or the one coming Tuesday. My apologies on that and I hope you can still enjoy our efforts.
Tim, I’ve been watching Borat again now that it’s on HBO and it’s both better and worse than I remembered. How is that even possible?
I don’t know, but I did have nearly the same experience when I rewatched it over a friend’s house a month or so ago. The movie is like magic, I guess.
Links
Our DC Boards is the place to find the return of the real Starman Matt (apparently he’d been replaced by Everyman for the past few months) and check out the latest thread Tim and I inspired (with some help from The Shade.)
Tim, are you linking anything this week?
Oh yeah I am! I’m thinking this video both defines and defies the term “awesome.
What I Read Last Week
Countdown #29 – Yes! I loved the Lord Havok stuff. I can’t wait for that mini. I loathe Jimmy Olsen. Loathe him. I was glad to see Double Down with the Rogues and it was nice to see Mary really cut loose. But I’m really going to miss the Jokester. H cared more about him than I did his daughter. He will be missed.
I missed a Double Down appearance? Well, that is disappointing. Not disappointing enough to make me buy it, mind you, but still.
Wonder Woman #13 – I love the art team of Lopez, Bit and Martinez. They were by far the high point of the title. I really hope that I see them together again at some point, somewhere.
Green Lantern #24 – Geoff Johns: setting back John Stewart and Black characters in general, one issue at a time.
Really? Because I found Stewart’s declaration of his need to “stay Black†a powerful stand against America’s homogenizing process of the Black American experience and the attempts to sweep such past ills as slavery and segregation under the rug.
Or, you know, it was just a bad line. Either, really.
X-Factor #24 – Kind of a letdown of an ending. I dug seeing Layla get her revenge. But the issue fell rather flat to me.
Stormwatch #12 – Tim, why do good books have to end? This will probably end up with Chase and Chronos in my heart.
You heard that American Virgin’s ending too, right? We knew the shoes we start dropping, you and I did. But I was praying we were wrong.
Black Adam #3 – Hawkman hasn’t been this cool in years. Why is this book a mini and not a regular series? I’d sacrifice quite a bit for this team to stay with this character forever.
Booster Gold #3 – Another fun issue. I loved drunk Booster crashing into Wally and Barry. I didn’t quite like making “Supernova is the Evil Leaper” official. But still, this is a pretty fun title. I do wish I had an Anthro jacket like that
Suicide Squad #2 – I dug how the story fleshed out Eiling’s involvement behind the scenes and explained how Rick survived. The art continues to look great, even if the story is a tad slow.
Everything you say, I agree with.
Simon Dark #1 – This book would be so much better if it weren’t set in Gotham. Interesting premise and characters, captivating art. But the Gotham setting is what makes this book ring false to me.
Yes, how many “dark corners that even Batman dare not explore†does Gotham have at this point?
Green Arrow & Black Canary #1 – I enjoyed it. I loved Chiang’s art (and seeing him draw an array of DC’s best). I enjoyed the story, though I’ll miss Everyman. This book was everything I hoped for and more.
I know some people were down on this (perhaps due to the presence of Winick?) but I quite liked this opener. Of course, when Connor dies (come on, we all know it is going to happen!) my allegiance will be sorely tested, no doubt.
The Exterminators #22 – It’s been almost two years and this book still makes my skin crawl when I read it. I still can’t eat anything while I’m reading this title. Those are both compliments. I really can’t wait to see how this build up pays off.
Batman Confidential #10 – This really isn’t a bad origin. It’s just not the Joker’s origin. I like the guy, but he’s not the Joker. He’s interesting and I want to see more of him. Just not as the Joker.
Welcome to Tranquility #11 – Leave it to Simone to give me a zombie story, in this age of a zombie glut, and make me enjoy it. I’ll miss this book too.
Faker #3 & 4 – See, I was way lost until these two issue came out. The explanations came just in time to reel me back in. This is a trippy tale and I can’t wait to read it in one sitting.
Wait a minute! Is it time for Bizarro Questions?
Damn straight!
Once – I seem to recall a Bat crossover where Bruce Wayne was wanted for murder. How was he framed and how’d he get cleared?
Twice – I heard people talking about how a character named Power Boy tried to force himself on Supergirl. What’s up with that?
Thrice – What is this “women in refrigerators” thing I keep hearing about?
Eins- Who’s this “Hitman†fella everyone’s on about?
Zwei- I love to laugh. What’s the best humor/superhero comic DC has ever made that isn’t JLI?
Drei- My friend says he likes the old Question, the Ayn Rand fan, not the Zen one, or the new female one. What the heck is he talking about?
Vier- Who’s Rainbow Raider? Is he as awesome as his name implies?
That Bootleg Guy ponders success
So, how long do we need to determine the success or failure of an “event†storyline? It’s been 20+ years since “Crisis†with a lot of its legacy undone in recent years. In your eyes, was it a success or a failure? How about “Zero Hourâ€, which is 10+ years old or, more recently, “52â€. Too soon?
See, this is a tricky one to answer because I’m not quite sure how to quantify “success” or “failure.” I mean I’m apt to go with Crisis being a success because it revitalized the entire DC line.
Because of Crisis Superman not only landed the cover of Time but he was actually cool again. Batman’s origin got tweaked. We also got Wally West growing into The Flash. Wonder Woman had an actual creative force behind her. Booster Gold and Blue Beetle both made their DCU debuts following Crisis.
Obviously not everything was grand in the Post-Crisis DCU. The Legion of Super-Heroes got mucked up due to the lack of Superman ever being Superboy. The early days of the JLA were kind of hazy. Don’t get me started on the how it effected the JSA. And there was minimal effect on the Green Lantern corner of the DCU.
That said, Crisis (and immediately afterward) was a pretty good jumping on point for folks interested in the DCU. That’s pretty much where I jumped headfirst into DC. And despite the recent retcons, I still view Crisis as a success.
I don’t know if the same can be said for Zero Hour. Through my eyes Zero Hour is a very blurry affair. Where as Crisis set out to streamline things, Zero Hour was an attempt to “fix” things. And I think that most people remember it for what it messed up on.
The “fixes” were less than memorable. Batman never caught his parents killer? Boring. Bruce Wayne adopted Dick Grayson? Stop the presses!
Vicki Vale?
To fans and creators alike Zero Hour made Hawkman radioactive. And the mini broke the heart of many long time Legion of Super-Hero fans, as it rebooted the property.
That said, the reason why Zero Hour is kind of a draw is because for all of the inconsequential tweaks, rebooting and the whole Hawkman debacle, DC actually learned the value of legacy.
I know, I know, that sounds ironic considering Zero Hour is largely remembered for the JSA massacre, but it’s true. Zero Hour gave us Starman and through that book, DC learned how important and valuable DC’s rich heritage was.
Being that I’m a diehard Legion of Super-Heroes fan, I’m going to call Zero Hour a draw. It gave us Starman which provided an unintended result, but that doesn’t make the pain of my losing my LSH any less severe.
It’s probably too early to declare 52 a success or failure, but that’s not going to stop me from doing exactly that. Therefore I hereby declare 52 a resounding success.
I mean it proved quite a few things. First off it proved that in this day and age of late shipping books that a weekly comic book was possible. It’s a model that DC is currently following with Countdown and that Marvel is inching toward with Amazing Spider-Man.
Secondly it proved that a group of non A-listers could anchor a successful book. Would anyone have believed that a washed up hero, a support character, a former Vertigo star, an anti hero, a one-time JLA member and a faceless detective would be able to keep readers captivated week after week? Well they did!
52 also managed to flesh out the DCU and explore some interesting characters, be they aliens or mad scientists. Plus the spin offs like Black Adam, Booster Gold and Metal Men have been some of the most enjoyable books in recent months.
And that’s why I’m willing to declare 52 a resounding success.
Tim, where do you stand on these successes or failures?
I think judging any event on “lasting change†is a mistake. Things change and are reset in comics so often so quickly that almost nothing would be successful if that was our measuring stick.
To me, success if defined by telling a good story that delivers action, drama, and character development. If some positive change comes out of that, too, all the better.
Thus, while it has never been my cup of tea, Crisis ends up on the successful side of the page. Would we still be talking about it some 20 plus years later if it wasn’t? I say thee nay.
When I get into more recent events, thus that happened when I was buying comics, I apply a rather peculiar scale. If I pick out deficiencies in an event but overall my feeling is that it delivered, that’s a success. If I can pick out great moments (or books) from an event, but the event itself sort of fades from my mind, that’s a mixed bag. Finally, if it hurts to think about the event, that’s a failure.
Thus, while I think it dragged in places and WWIII was an mess of a cash grab (it felt that way at least) I still call it a success. Ditto for DC One Million, which was disjointed and a bit too in love with its pseudo future science but still ended up being compelling, and, dare I say it, touching.
Zero Hour is a mixed bag because I can identify some moments and issues that I thought were excellent. The two Zero Hour related issues of Green Lantern, Robin #0, Parallax’s reveal, and Ollie Queen stopping his power mad friend all are worth remembering. The event itself though? Honestly, I don’t exactly remember what all the fighting was about. Underworld Unleashed created some cool villain revamps and a star making turn by The Trickster but suffered because of it vacillating “have your cake and eat it too†approach that saw it damn 90’s excesses while indulging in them.
Failures? Genesis. Millennium Giants. Trust me, you just know them when you see them.
Jag knows the song in my heart
I think the consensus has been that post Infinite Crisis, Nightwing as a character and a book, has really sucked. The thing is, I love Nightwing as a character and I’m really getting sick of the weird, uneven treatment he gets. I mean, every time he’s in a battle, he usually gets his buttocks handed to him and he is made a fool of WAY too much. I mean, here’s a guy who pretty much went toe to toe with Deathstroke and even outsmarted him quite a few times but he gets punked by these mediocre villains in his own book. Case in point with the new Vigilante knocking the crap out of him recently. It doesn’t make sense for writers to treat Nightwing as such a putz considering he’s more experienced than most of the heroes out there. Considering who trained him and how much Batman has respect in the DCU, you’d think Nightwing would be one of the more polished heroes by now. I know he’s not as dark or focused as Bats but Dick has been trained by the best and has been for most of his life now. Why is he not portrayed as such?
Wow. You’ve completely and succinctly wrapped up my thoughts on Nightwing. We’re in perfect sync in that regard.
Just because I don’t feel like crying, we won’t get into Bruce Jones’ dreadful OYL arc on Nightwing. Wait, it’s too late – I feel the tears coming.
Shh…shh. It’s okay. It is all over now. Bruce Jones can’t hurt you any longer…probably.
It’s ok. I’m better now.
In Marv Wolfman’s defense I think that he was truly coming at Nightwing from a genuine place. I think he really wanted to show that Dick was human and fallible. That’s why Nightwing had lingering wounds. And to be fair, having a Monitor appear and tell you that you should be dead is probably a pretty jarring experience, so who knows how much that played into Dick’s recent beatdowns.
As far as the brand new Vigilante is concerned, it seems to me that Wolfman was just trying hard to make the character formidable and more mysterious. After all, aren’t you interested in finding out who could best someone trained by the Bat? Don’t you want to know what secrets are hidden behind his mask? Aren’t you willing to pick up the new book featuring the new Vigilante to find out the answers to those questions?
Believe me, I’m just as disappointed in the recently concluded arc on Nightwing as you are. It always feels kind of cheap when a story arc is basically the pilot for a new book. I don’t like it when TV shows do it and I really don’t like it when I have to pay for it.
But the problem with portraying Dick in all of his glory is that how would come up with a threat for him? Batman’s a detective and he’s sworn to protect a city. But how would Nightwing find trouble, given he’s not as driven as Bruce? And if he’s written as great he probably should be given his experience, how do you stretch out a story to last an issue, much less an arc?
Personally I think that Nightwing needs a city that he’s tied to and sworn to protect. He was at his best in Bludhaven so maybe he should visit St. Roch or Opal? But he needs to have a place of his own and NYC doesn’t seem to be doing it.
But don’t fear, there’s a light at the end of that tunnel and his name is Peter Tomasi. He’s going to be taking over Nightwing and he’s been doing to pretty good stuff on Black Adam so I’m optimistic.
Tim, how would you fix Nightwing?
I think we’ve discussed this topic in our column recently (oh no, I’m not becoming one of those relatives who is endlessly saying the same thing over and over again, am I?) but since Jag’s good people, I’m happy to answer it again.
My first prescription is that DC and the creators need to stop worrying so much about what Dick’s place in the DCU is. No need to have him run from or embrace the shadow of the Bat. No one needs to remind us of Dick’s resume. We all know it, we promise. There is no need to hem and haw over it. Dick is. Accept him and tell good stories. If Batman or Robin or Orpheus (sorry, couldn’t resist) show up and it makes sense in the story, so be it. If they don’t and it makes sense, then that’s cool, too. Just stop with the over thinking it already. Self consciousness rarely translates into something worth reading.
Next, while I agree that Dick in Bludhaven was pretty great and I think the powers-that-be at DC did hurt NW a bit when they blew the place up, I don’t necessarily think the first move is to find the man a different city to call home. I’m tempted to say a Dick Grayson campaign to rebuild Bludhaven might make for an interesting subplot, but Johns has tried the same thing in GL with Coast City and if lantern jawed, test pilot with nerves of steel Hal “Highball†Jordan can’t make that storyline interesting, what chance does someone not nearly as perfect Highball stand? Instead, I suggest Bludhaven is being rebuilt, but it is way way way back in the background (maybe a newspaper headline here and there or a TV commentator jabbering on about it once in a while) and we get back to it later.
Instead, Nightwing hits the road. It is Dick Grayson on Tour! Given that he’s both an established member of the current generation of heroes and perhaps the brightest light in the DCU’s future, he decides to visit some of the DCU hot spots and help new or barely hanging on heroes truly own the business of superheroing. Think the Hulk TV series meets a really excellent efficiency expert meet Brave and the Bold but at least three times as interesting. As NW helps struggling heroes get their grooves back, wouldn’t you know he finds his too.
And then, just when it seems we’ve exhausted that approach, bang, Bludhaven springs to the forefront. It is back and gleaming with possibility. Whereas once it was a cesspool, now it is a beacon of progress. On the surface, it makes Metropolis look like, I don’t know, the Gaza Strip. However, a random encounter with a suicidal woman clues Nightwing into everything not being quite as it seems and he returns to his old stomping ground to find out what corruption lies beneath this beautiful visage. Dick is back as protector of Bludhaven, but it is a Bludhaven that everyone perceives as not needing a protector. The previous incarnation of this city was so corrupt that people in power didn’t care for Nightwing’s presence because he was interrupting their sweet gig. Here, however, the common man doesn’t want him there because they can’t understand the need for him. How does NW protect a citizenry that doesn’t want his help?
With that question hilarity action ensues.
Some Dude who emailed Tim is going to the big house
I need something new to read. I usually just stick with Watchmen and Vertigo types. If you were going to prison for life and were only given the choice of one comic series you could subscribe to: What would it be?
Wait, are we talking prison like Oz, because if we are I wouldn’t subscribe to anything, I’d be too busy playing matchmaker with Tobias Beecher, because that guy needs some love.
But if I’m not going to Oz, and I’ve got to pick a book, it’s going to require some serious thought.
Obviously I plan on dying of old age in prison, so miniseries are out of the question. Likewise, books that probably won’t be around this time next year won’t be considered (that means you Atom).
Obviously if you want a safe bet of a lifetime of reading you’re going to with Action Comics or Detective Comics. I’d probably go with the latter just because it seems a more consistent title, but in this day and age of rotating creative teams consistency is relative.
But I’m not picking Detective Comics.
Nope, for me it’s down to two titles; The Flash or Green Lantern. Those are my two favorite characters and those are the two that I’d want to keep tabs on while I’m wasting away in my cell counting the days serving time for an undisclosed crime.
I love Green Lantern. Hal Jordan is why I read comics. But Green Lantern has one major drawback to being on my PPL (Prison Pull List) and that’s it’s sister title; Green Lantern Corps. Suppose there’s another crossover between the books like the very enjoyable Sinestro Corps War? Then I’m left with half of the saga, wondering what I missed in the other title.
And that’s why I’m going with The Flash. That and I’ve been reading the title since 1987, which makes it a sentimental favorite.
Tim, how do you determine what’s going to make it onto your PPL?
Well, first, I’d actually try to answer the man’s question. I’m just crazy like that, you know.
Some Guy, if you like Vertigo-esque books and you’re looking for a book to get you through a long prison sentence, your choices are pretty limited. Basically, you’ve got Hellblazer and Swamp Thing that you can count on being around for the long haul. After that, most Vertigo titles are deliberately written with an end in mind (Y: The Last Man, 100 Bullets) or so singularly associated with one creator (Fables) you just can’t count on it being around month after month, year after year. Given a choice between those two, I guess I’d go Hellblazer, but I’m not sure I’d be happy with either choice, 100%.
If I look at all my month-to-month purchases to decide, it doesn’t get any easier. Daredevil’s my favorite character and it undeniably in a bit of a renaissance these days, since issue #1 of the current volume. Even misfires, like Bob Gale’s court story, were still entertaining. On the other hand, the guy has a history of some pretty awful stories taking place in his books, Humanity’s Fathom, anyone, so I’m just not sure he’s the right horse to back.
On the other hand, my other two top characters, Spider-Man and Batman, have had similar luck. Heck, I don’t even buy a mainstream Spider-Man title now and I have no prison enforcement restriction on my choices. Batman’s titles have been more consistently good for the past several years, but there still has been some lousy stories AND Bat books are well known for crossovers, like the upcoming Return of Ras Al Ghul, so that’s got to be taken under consideration. Ultimate Spider-Man is another strong contender, but much like the above mentioned Fables, it is so associated with Bendis, I’m not sure it will even exist when he moves on.
So…wow…I’m stumped. Isn’t it a violation of my civil rights to make me make such a choice?
That’s right, I’m lawyering up.
That Bootleg Guy thinks we’re commitment phobic
Have you have had a “one n’ doneâ€? I’m asking if you’ve ever picked up an issue #1 and it was so bad that it turned you off from buying any subsequent issues?
Oh how I wish I could answer this question with a resounding “yes.” Sadly, I’m rather compulsive, a collector and an optimist when it comes to creative pursuits (it’s why I still watch Lost). So when you combine those aspects you get a guy rarely drops a book, much less after a debut issue.
I’m really an optimist. I honestly believe that a bad book will get better. For all of my bashing the current era of rotating creative teams, I know that all a bad book needs to get better is for an influx of new talent behind the scenes and it’ll get better. Look at Supergirl. That book was a mess when it debuted. But when Joe Kelly jumped aboard it got much, much better and became a fave of mine.
At least until Kelly left the book.
But there have been a few books that I really wish I’d dropped after the first issue.
Battle For Bludhaven – This book is probably my biggest regret in life. Even bigger than the time I stabbed that hobo in a drunken rage. He was in the drunken rage, not me. I don’t want to get into it.
Oh come now, everyone likes stabbing hobos!
Aquaman – The water hand version. The book didn’t start to get enjoyable until well after a year into the book. But I’ve still got that complete first year.
Testament – I don’t know when I jumped off this Vertigo trip, but I knew that I wasn’t digging this title after the first issue. I probably picked up all the way to #3.
I know that you’ve dropped a book after the first issue, right Tim?
You bet! I’m stone cold! I dropped the current GL series after issue #1 and only picked up 3-4 issues of it until the Sinestro Corps story. Similarly, GLC got dropped after issue #1. Other books after dropped after just one taste, in recent memory, include: Batman/Scarecrow (and that was only two issues long!), DD/Punisher, Flash: Fastest Man Alive (before jumping back on for Bart’s death and Wally’s return), and several OYL titles (Aquaman, Hawkgirl, Outsiders, etc). Then again, I’ve stuck on other books for far too long, such as Countdown (5 issues), Titans (25+), and Batman/Superman (14), so I guess I’m a bit of an optimist too.
If Jag thinks the Bat books have lots of loose ends, he should try the X-Men.
Two-Face. One of the things that’s really starting to bother me about the Bat-books is loose plot threads. Batgirl is one but Two-Face’s treatment over the past few years really irks me. For example, he shows up in Hush, has his face healed and disappears for a year or so. He shows up during/after Infinite Crisis and Batman trains him and he goes back to scarring himself (how many times has the guy done this?! So predictable!) and takes off. Why the bad treatment for Harv?! Are we not going to see him again until The Dark Knight comes out (allegedly he makes an appearance in that so the comics would do a tie-in, obviously). I personally would have wanted a longer build up for regular Harv to turn into Two-Face again or something or even a new persona, because the Two-Face persona in him isn’t primarily a physical manifestation either. Plus, with Batman’s training of him, Bruce has, in effect, aided him into becoming a better killer so you know there’s a guilt thing there. What do you guys think?
I can completely understand why you’d feel that Harvey Dent was mistreated. When you look at his being “cured” in Hush and then showing up as Batman’s replacement in Gotham during the “missing year” it looks pretty sketchy.
But here are some things that you may want to consider. First off, Hush was supposed to have a six issue sequel by Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee, which would wrap up some of the loose ends, most likely Harvey Dent. This is all the more likely when you look at how prominently Dent was featured in Loeb’s previous Batman works.
And when you realize that Loeb’s contract with DC ended right around OYL, you can sort of see how editors and other writers were probably leaving Harvey Dent hands off for Loeb to come back to. He clearly was clearly setting up to tell a Harvey Dent story and he’s got an affinity for the character. Plus Hush was wildly popular so creators and editors were more than likely making sure that sequel could happen.
But it didn’t. So James Robinson was called in for the return of Two-Face.
Was Harvey Dent squandered? Sure, but only with the best intentions in mind.
I’ll echo your desire to see a new more dangerous Two-Face. Of course I’m sure that it might be hard to use Batman’s training in a dapper suit like Harvey is usually sporting, but it would be great to see a much more physically formidable Two-Face wreaking mayhem in Gotham.
Tim, did DC drop the ball with Harvey and what do you think his future should hold?
I think they did a bit because Harvey as good guy could’ve been an interesting, if still finite, affair. Instead, he was good for like an issue worth of story before falling apart because Batman didn’t like him enough…or something. A nice, slow slide back into his old ways would’ve been more fitting. But OYL was what it was, so Harvey had to convert in a hurry. Still, it was a story that employed Orca the Whalewoman and we are all the better for that.
As far as what the future should hold, I’d be interested in some of that guilt Jag mentioned being explored. I also wouldn’t mind seeing how being good for a time changed Two-Face ever so slightly, introducing a true air of randomness to him. You truly wouldn’t know if Two-Face was going to kill you or save you when he showed up and neither did he. The flip of the coin would, truly, be the deciding factor.
Some Dude who emailed Tim is evil, I tell you, EVIL!
Are there any comics out there that are written and based from a villain point of view? I’ve always thought the idea of a Villains comic would be unique and a pretty decent seller if handled right.
(It’s really, really funny because for a second there I completely forgot about a certain sextuplet of villains who starred in their own mini. That’s how much I’ve blanked them out of my mind.)
BOO! to your attitude!
There are a few titles that might meet your standards of being “written and based from a villain point of view.” But it’s kind of tough to write from that perspective because a) the antagonist of the tale would be heroic and it’d be difficult to keep coming up with reasons why our protagonist keeps besting heroes in a setting that has multiple heroes to face and b) that whole paradigm shift would be difficult to pull off on a regular basis.
But here are some books that kinda, sorta fit your description.
Eclipso – This book ran for 18 issues and featured the title character prominently. Granted he shared page space with those trying to stop him, namely Bruce Gordon, but (paradoxically) Eclipso shined.
Villains United – A really enjoyable mini. It mostly featured villains vs villains, but the complete lack of morals of all character involved and the personalities of those involved made for quite a fun ride. For diminished results also check out Secret Six.
Lex Luthor – Lex has two stories that are worth reading; The Unauthorized Biography of Lex Luthor and Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. The first is a look at his origins and the second is a glimpse into his mind. These are probably the best Lex Luthor stories you’ll ever read.
If you’re curious for more villain centric tales you could try the Superman Villains Secret Files & Origins, both Batman Villains Secret Files & Origins and the DCU Villains Secret Files & Origins. Oh and you may also want to pick up Wanted (soon to be a major motion picture) which is basically Mark Millar’s re-imagining of the Secret Society of Super-Villains.
Can you think of any good villain-centric tales, Tim?
As always, allow me to recommend Johns’ Rogue spotlight issues from his run on Flash. And I’m totally blanking beyond that. Some of the New Year’s Evil one-shots, perhaps? Especially the Prometheus one.
Jag has a taste for blood
Seeing the Joker again in JLA made me start thinking about the last time I saw him (which was when Batman saved him from Jason Todd). Joker “blew himself up” at the end of that arc and of course, he always comes back from inconclusive death but I was thinking…maybe they should kill him just to see what the ramifications would be. I mean, they’ll obviously resurrect him but it would be interesting to see Jason Todd kill him and have Batman’s theory about not killing and equilibrium and justice and all that be truly tested. What do you think?
I think that’s pretty much the tale that everyone’s been waiting for since Jason Todd came back from the dead. We got a taste of it when Infinite Crisis hit, but it pretty much left us all wanting more.
It was fun seeing Red Hood toying with Batman and the Joker. But it’d be much better to see Batman having to bring in Jason for the death of the Joker. Just that triangle right there is reason enough to be glad that Jason is alive again.
I mean imagine if the Joker were able to frame Jason for his murder and Batman brought Jason to “justice” only for the Joker to be revealed alive. How great would that be? Batman got justice for Joker but not Jason? It’d be a pretty powerful moment in the relationship between Jason and Bruce, especially if Jason was proclaiming his innocence.
Or imagine if the Joker convinced Jason that he’d actually killed the Joker and we had a defiant Jason vs Bruce on a quest for justice. That’d be equally thrilling.
Obviously I don’t think that the Joker needs to die in order for the issue to be raised. I actually think it’s better if the Joker is clever enough to realize that he’s the wedge between the two and utilizes that to his advantage. I’m telling you the dynamic between those three is something grand.
Tim, what do you think should be done with the three of those guys?
Yes, I do. Winick seemed to be driving towards such a thing, but the business of Infinite Crisis could not be ignored so what we ended up with was an enjoyable yarn that did not, perhaps, deliver on its build up. So there’s still plenty of opportunity there I’d like to see followed through with.
I can’t think of a better way to end the column than on a threesome.
Of course you can’t.
Next week well have more Q&A goodness possibly involving Halloween costumes, camouflage Aquaman and S.T.A.R.(s) in the DCU.
You can either email me your questions or post them on our thread!
Before I go, here’s my question to you; What did you think about Green Arrow & Black Canary #1?
“I am all the days that you choose to ignore.”
