An icon of the SoCal indy scene. One of the biggest names of the indy explosion early in the decade. A man who toured Japan dozens of times and has traveled the world. He might have stepped away from professional wrestling for a bit, but now he’s returned and he didn’t hold anything back. Modest has done many interviews about his experiences stateside, so I focused on his time in Pro Wrestling NOAH.
Interview background
After a small amount of work in WWF and WCW, Modest (and partner Donovan Morgan) debuted for NOAH on the July 2001 tour. They were quickly given reasonably high-profile singles matches at the tour’s Nippon Budokan finalie and were on the vast majority of shows for the next four years. Modest held the GHC junior title from March 30th through September 12th of 2003. Modest & Morgan’s last show was October 28th, 2005. Bison Smith, their student, has been the top foreigner in NOAH for the last several years. In conjunction with NOAH, he and Morgan operated the Pro Wrestling IRON promotion in California until 2005.
A few weeks ago I was directed to Who’s Slamming Who, a website with a bevy of weekly podcasts. Modest has one, and from there I was able to get in contact with him. Based on the content it was clear that he wasn’t afraid to shoot and speak his mind, but even that didn’t prepare me for what would come over the course of an hour-plus phone conversation.
Modest in Japan overview
Ed Schuman, an NWA-affiliated promoter in the Midwest, told Modest that NOAH would be having tryouts at Harley Race’s gym. He couldn’t make it in person, but the tape he sent was enough to get them a tryout in California. Christopher Daniels was part of the tryout, but he had wrestled in Michinoku Pro and thus was “tainted†in NOAH’s eyes.
Modest was thrilled with the first tour. He’d seen enough tapes from Japan to be familiar with the style, and was comfortable right away. The only negative on the tour was Morgan botching a legdrop, landing butt-first on Sano’s face and busting Sano open. However it was quickly forgiven. At the end of the tour Morgan faced Kanemaru for the junior title while Modest wrestled Ogawa. Both lost but had good showings. The Ogawa match was one of Modest’s favorites from his time in Japan, and he loved wrestling in a venue made famous by a number of all-time great musical acts.
After the initial loss to Ogawa, Modest was heavily protected. The Modest & Morgan team lost a lot, but Morgan always dropped the fall. Eventually he got a junior title match against Kanemaru. Mike was shocked on the night of the match to learn he was getting the title. Afterwards Modest wasn’t on TV much, he wasn’t announced as the junior champion, and he didn’t even get to wear the belt during introductions. This was baffling, and reached the point where NOAH’s TV intro went through all the champions except him. Modest said that the gaijin weren’t allowed to build a fanbase in Japan, and get over to the point where they could be known outside NOAH. Modest never got to do a title defense in Japan, and it got to the point where Mike asked Ogawa if he could drop the belt and stop being hidden. The same thing happened when Scorpio and Doug Williams won the tag titles in early 2005.
Modest & Morgan had a tag match against Marvin & Suzuki at the July 10th 2004 Tokyo Dome show, which they won. Afterwards, Modest did a heated interview. It was a shoot, and he reiterated all the points made. He would have been fine losing to KENTA & Marufuji, but says that due to the size difference it would have looked ridiculous for Modest & Morgan to lose.
Modest and Morgan weren’t punished for the interview. Interestingly enough they got a tag title shot a few months later… against heavyweight tag champs Misawa & Ogawa. The match itself was disappointing because Morgan got hurt earlier in the tour. The injury came in a match versus Ikeda & Yone, when they didn’t catch Morgan on the outside and he bruised his ribs on the rail. Morgan couldn’t bump, but he could be protected because he was always in tags. During the tag title match itself Modest had to bump for two, and Misawa & Ogawa only talked with them for a couple of minutes right before they went out so very little was planned despite the handicap. There was a very stiff finish where Modest took several high-angle bumps in a row, but he wasn’t injured by the moves. This wound up being their last big match in NOAH, and 2005 saw them given neither a push nor a burial.
At the end of their final tour in October 2005, Modest noticed that they weren’t booked for the next tour. They asked about it and were assured that it was a mistake. However, NOAH had promised them 15 weeks of work (and pay) for the year, and without the next tour it would only be 13. Both of them needed the money, and NOAH paid it to them, but demanding the money without working the shows ended the business relationship. Michael said he regrets how it happened, and put most of the blame on himself. It’s worth noting that in their final match with the company, Modest got the pin; they weren’t buried.
People
-Akiyama: Great wrestler, Mike’s favorite out of the “big three†(Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama).
-Kobashi: Just one chop will make your whole body tingle for a solid minute. There was a spot where Modest and Morgan would both be in a corner, and Kobashi would do his multi-chops to Morgan. Modest could feel the chops through his partner. Kobashi apparently isn’t fond of gaijin, but he works so hard that there’s no way to complain about it.
-Misawa: The elbow is brutal.
-KENTA: A good opponent, but a “stiff little prickâ€.
-Marufuji: Amazing athlete. Spoke good English. Perfect example of someone who you might not think of as tough, but is legit thanks to his amateur background. (That applies to most of the roster).
-Taue: “A night off that the fans didn’t know was a night offâ€. He isn’t stiff, and gets big reactions without doing much. Big-time fisherman; he and Honda would find somewhere to fish before every show.
-Ogawa: Spoke good English, and was able to lay out a long finishing sequence before their match. A “Japanese Bret Hart†in terms of his being technical and crafty. Like Taue he was a “night off†in terms of not being stiff, but it was at least a good workout.
-Takayama: Liked wrestling No Fear as a team. Once took a Takayama kick to the spine so hard, he thought for a moment that he was paralyzed.
-Rikio: “Awesomeâ€, better than Morishima, who is very good himself. The slaps are legit.
-Bison Smith: Modest thinks he should have had the GHC title years ago, but NOAH forgot Baba’s mindset about pushing and protecting gaijin.
-Omori: Overrated, especially by himself. Asked for too much and got kicked out.
-Honda: Knew a lot of English because he’s a big fan of punk rock.
-Yone: A better person than he is a wrestler. Only had four or five moves and did them in every match.
-Kanemaru: Fun to wrestle and a hard worker. His athletic ability is limited compared to the likes of Marufuji, but he’s good at hitting his spots.
-Sugiura: The strongest on the roster pound-for-pound. Can deadlift suplex almost anyone, which is the true test of strength. Very humble, no ego.
-Ikeda: For some reason he cheapshotted Morgan a lot, including an overly stiff lariat to the throat. Modest yelled at him for it and Ikeda apologized.
-Marvin: Great talent, great guy, and a “little brotherâ€.
-Eigen: “A prickâ€.
-Jardi Frantz: Blew his chance in NOAH while trying to show off. He was going for a backflip off a wall at the dojo, but wound up putting his foot through the wall. He wasn’t brought back.
Road stories & other thoughts
-Favorite ribs: Marufuji told KENTA to beware of getting raped while visiting Mexico. Mike backed him up, saying he wouldn’t go there without a gun. Once they got stuck on the “old man busâ€, and Eigen was clearly making fun of them in Japanese. Modest hatched a plan to do the same with Morgan, and prentended to mock Eigen with a nonsense hybrid language of English, Spanish, Russian and carny. While that got Eigen to stop, it also got some heat on Modest.
-Favorite matches: The Ogawa match, singles match against Kotaro Suzuki in early 2003, and a tag against Rikio & Morishima from the tag title tournament in October 2001. The finish to that was Modest pinning Rikio with a victory roll, and it got a huge pop.
-On matches he wasn’t in: Loved seeing so many NOAH shows live. “Cool, I’m being paid to watch Misawa.â€
-Favorite place in Japan: The Shibuya area of Tokyo. Great parties, but not filled with tourists and con-artists like Roppongi.
-On fans & venues: Korakuen and Differ Ariake get very different crowds despite both being in Tokyo. But the crowds in the countryside were even more different. Modest had the reputation of being a “gentleman†because he didn’t sleep around while married. Morgan, who was single, had his pick of hot fans; Modest would up attracting attention from fans with weird skin diseases. The wrestling fans in general are smart to the business but respectful because of the real pain involved.
-On Vader: Generally fine to work with, but there were two negative incidents. The first stemmed from Vader wanting to have exclusive autograph sessions. NOAH would let Modest & Morgan do signings after Vader was done, and Vader didn’t like it but never told them why. Scorpio and Richard Slinger didn’t get to do sessions at all, so they were upset too, but also wouldn’t discuss it with Modest & Morgan. It got worked out in the end but only after a lot of needless tension. The other thing was Vader refusing to listen to one of Modest’s ideas, and getting offended that Modest would even offer one. Mike stuck up for himself and Vader charged, but Scorpio (who’s stronger than he looks) held him back. Ogawa and Marufuji liked Modest’s idea, and soon enough Vader was on the outs with NOAH.
-On Japanese business practices: Mike wanted some time off after the birth of one of his sons. He was told that it would be an offensive request, and got a glimpse into the different mindset in Japan. Afterwards he bought a book, “How to do business with the Japaneseâ€. The first piece of advice was “Don’tâ€, and it went on to talk about practices that were weird and/or shrewd.
-On IRON: NOAH sent talent and NTV would tape those events and cover NOAH’s costs, so there was no cost to IRON. ROH started bringing in wrestlers and paying much more: “$18,000 for Kobashi, $12,000 for Misawa, $3500 for KENTA and Marufujiâ€. Plus NTV would also get to tape there for free. IRON lost out on the talent and closed down. Modest is upset with ROH spending so much rather than NOAH shifting to them.
-On NOAH’s current situation: They aren’t as bad off as they seem, and the NTV cancellation announcement was worked. Mike thinks they might actually wind up with a better deal in a couple months.
-On his absence & return: Modest’s ex-wife threatened divorce if he didn’t stop wrestling in 2006. He stopped, but the divorce happened anyway, so now he’s back in action.
-On what he’d like to do now: Modest and Morgan want to go back to Japan, but no promotions are interested because they’re “NOAH guysâ€, and with the NOAH bridge burned there’s no way back. Modest would like to return to ROH now that Gabe Sapolsky is gone, and he’s gotten a favorable word from Adam Pearce, but ROH won’t fly him out so it’s doubtful. Even if they do get back in Japan, indy wrestlers have driven the price for non-heavyweights down significantly.
My thanks to Mike for his time and honesty!
