Grey: Want to pound out a Watchmen discussion as only we can do it?
Glazer: Lets get started. So, did you like it?
Grey: I just have to open with one thing then, when Adrian said “I did it thirty-five minutes ago” I almost blew a load in my pants, that’s my all time favorite line from any comic, and yes, yes I did like it. very very much
Glazer: I liked it, but it sucked that Adrian was the worst actor with the least development.
Grey: I’ll agree about the actor, but every single Adrian scene from the book was in the movie. He never really received a ton of development to start with is the problem.
Glazer: Then damn did the book feel like it humanized him more, because in the movie he came off as a cipher.
Grey: I think the problem with Adrian was very much the actor, as he seemed way too distant from the get-go
Glazer: Now that we hit the climax, let’s take a cue for the book and go back to the start.
Grey: My problem with the ending was just the degree in which John was villainized, but other then that I thoroughly enjoyed it
Grey: Adrian beating the crap out of Rorschach and Nite Owl was great
Glazer: I thought it went on a bit long, but I was fine with it. I like that John was villianized. It works with his motivation to leave earth… actually, I like Ozy’s plan in this significantly better than the squid. The ending still died to me for a few reasons
Grey: Without the extra content from the book the street corner with the newspaper salesman and the kid and the psych was just…..it was for us
Glazer: The first is that melodramatic “NOOOOO!” from Nite-Owl when Roschach died. That scene should have stood on their own. Also the Silk Spectre Scene with her mother and Nite-Owl at the end- if it was in the comic (I can’t recall) it was done far better. It felt like an entirely different writer and totally lacking the poetry of the rest of the movie.
Grey: It just felt out of place, appropriate, and yet completely out of place, and yeah, “NOOOOOO!” was laugh worthy
Glazer: Well, since the death is my favorite part, that really hurt the movie.
Grey: I get why Dan yelled, and he should have done it, but it just didn’t have the right emotion behind it
Glazer: Darth sort of took the trademark on that for geek movies. We need a new way to get that across.
Grey: Though I must give props to James Earl Haley, the scene where Rorschach demanded his death broke my heart
Glazer: Rorschach stole the movie, just as he did the comic. You basically have to love him or the whole movie falls apart.
Grey: He just had that look in his eyes that completely made it, and the fact that he didn’t scream for it, he just raised his voice
Glazer: He and Dr. Manhattan were handled exceptionally well. Nite-owl and Silk Spectre… not so much.
Grey: Jeffrey Dean Morgan was Ed Blake blew me away
Glazer: I agree there, I wanted to address Nite-Owl first, though.
Grey: Oh, I know, but I just had to bring up that he stole the show every time he was on screen
Glazer: Nite-Owl is sort of the adolescent power fantasy in reverse- the strength becoming impotence. That’s paid lip service in the movie, but he’s so much stronger a character that he really ends up almost useless thematically, which really disappoints me. Silk Spectre never got the development she did in the comic, but that worked to me. She’s not a character who takes action in the movie. She’s a character that things happen to- which works for me in the deconstruction of the heroine in comics.
Grey: Dan was always one of the weaker characters in the book, I loved him, but his depth was always pretty much that he had a dream he wanted to live up to and couldn’t and more or less turned into a fat nobody, you root for him, and you love him, but in a group with Rorschach and the Comedian, he just feels flat. Silk Spectre I actually liked more in the movie…..she was less of a whiny little bitch
Glazer: See, the whiny little bitch thing really worked for me in context of how she was raised and why she did what she did. : In the movie, again, she’s just sort of there
Grey: I get why she was one, but I was raised around tons of girls that had her attitude so the character was never a favorite of mine
Glazer: But for the larger plot, I didn’t want to like her, it was enough that I understood her. That’s the problem with the movie for me. I don’t get enough to care for Nite-Owl or Spectre and Manhattan is pointedly detached- so you either love Rorshach or the movie falls apart.
Grey: That’s how the book always read to me. I always liked Dan, and Laurie I could understand, but neither was enough to make me want for more
Glazer: I liked Nite-Owl in it out of Pathos and sympathized with Spectre due to her history. Dr. Manhattan got the awesome mystery and reveal…. they all hooked me in the comic.
Grey: I have to say it, the entire Dan/Laurie relationship was very well done but that was probably just because they took the comic word for word for it
Glazer: They sure did. It was a great relationship between characters that didn’t work for me though.
Grey: Dan’s dream sequence made the relationship for me it’s always been one of my most vivid memories from the book and I didn’t fully expect to see it handled well in the movie, or at all
Glazer: I barely remember it from the book, but it was nice. I was sad to see so much of the psychiatrist stuff cut.
Grey: he was such an amazing character in the book because of how he spent days trying to crack through Rorshach’s shell, and then he was finally allowed in and fully understood the man. Hopefully the directors cut features more of him
Glazer: I agree there. Okay- here’s my main problem with the movie, which I really did like- The comic is a deconstruction of superhero comics. The movie is essentially the same, but since mass audiences won’t get or care about that, they amp up the sex and violence to keep them hooked. In the dark, grim movie, I’m not remotely a fan of the over the top violence and sex.
Grey: I thought the sex was well done if not just for the fact that the music playing over it made me completely crack up. Speaking of which, that was one of the best soundtracks I’ve ever heard everything fit in perfectly for the overall fit
Glazer: Loved the soundtrack. The sex went on too long. I marked out at the Dylan song to start then never stopped at every song in the movie.
Grey: Sounds of Silence at the funeral
Glazer: Wicked soundtrack.
Grey: Truly perfect
Glazer: So, final thoughts?
Grey: Not quite yet. Let’s talk about Edward Blake
Glazer: Okay- He’s one of the best characters created and criminally overlooked. A true bastard in every way that made perfect sense.
Grey: He’s the biggest villain in the book and the movie, but you feel sorry for him and not like pity, but sympathy. “Can’t a guy just talk to his……old friend’s daughter?”, that look on his face comletely sold it
Glazer: I know. He’s fantastically well done. A man who has seen too much and wishes he hadn’t, so he’s bitter.
Grey: Who has screwed up so many things in his life that he knows he’s never going to be happy, and he’s not okay with it, but he knows to only blame himself. The scene of him in Vietnam killing the girl he got pregnant……I never thought that would make the final cut, and I’m so glad it did
Glazer: Yep, an honest and brutal character. If anyone from the book ever got a mini-series he’d be the best choice.
Grey: He and Rorscach are the true stars. Not to knock on Manhattan, but he comes in just short of those two
Glazer: I agree there. Manhattan has to come up short though, otherwise he’s Deus Ex
Grey: Oh, agreed. I did love the way he talked, just like in the books, he always sounds like he’s talking in his head
Glazer: Rating for the flick?
Grey: Should we do our usual 10 scale, or be movie nuts and do a star system?
Glazer: 10 scale
Glazer: I’m at 8/10 for a comic fan- great but not classic or perfect. 6/10 for your average joe- solid, but will be hit or miss.
Grey: Agreed Saw it with my cousin who said flat out “I wont pay to sit through this again, it’s not bad, but it’s too long”
Glazer: Saw it with my on again off again who disliked it but had a million discussion points post movie. Heard a lot of people as I walked out exclaiming it sucked.
Grey: The white people in my theater loved it, the black people hated it
Glazer: That’s fairly random
Grey: I wish I was making that up. Then again, I should probably add that the black people in the theater came and left together while all wearing matching colors. And that’s my racism for the afternoon 😛
Glazer: Moving right along lol
Grey: I think that cinemaphiles will enjoy the movie, as it is well shot and directed with an intriguing story
Glazer: I tend to agree there, though they will nitpick as a defense of film over art and say “fine for a comic movie”
Grey: Oh, of course. I think the directors cut, when it finally sees release, will be much better received. Though it will confuse the living fuck out of a lot of people
Glazer: I’m dying for it
Grey: At least an extra hour of footage
Glazer: I know =)