So I would like to thank my good buddy Dhaise from the forums for posting the question that we will be covering this week. Let’s just start this off with how he started the discussion:
“For your consideration.
Batman and Superman are currently untouchable (but see below for superman).
In my opinion, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) has actually been the third member of the DCU Trinity since his rebirth, ousting Diana out in all ways save ‘in name’.
He has a higher profile in the mainstream (while I guess more people know OF Diana, there is less being done _with_ her) currently, he has more books and probably more monthly appearances, and continually takes center stage in the DCU events. The sissy pilot also carries more weight, with quite a few sequences dedicated to demonstrating how high up the spandex food chain he is.
And if Barry Allen exposure continues at this pace, I wouldn’
t be suprised in the least to wake up and discover Diana is #5. Given the fan reception and percieved quality of flash/gl projects vs superman, I also wouldn’t be shocked to see Kal El drop off the #2 slot either.”
So there we have the beginning of the discussion. I kick started it a little bit woth my 2 cents but the replies were worded far better than I ever could mostly from fellow writer for the site Mathan who had this reply:
“The “trinity” concept only exists because those three characters where the ones that DC has published continually since they were created. Those are the three superheroes that withstood the ugly 1950’s.
The trinity concept also plays in continuity happenings, where Bruce, Diana and Clark were the best, brightest and some of the earliest of modern age of heroes.
The notion of someone getting bumped from the trinity is tricky. In explaining why Hal should get promoted, Dhaise really explained why Clark won’t ever drop from #2; the number of books and monthly appearances. Even if you go by the strict “appearances” code, you’ve got Superman and Batman/Superman and usually Adventure Comics. Plus his presence is felt in Action Comics, mythos is represented in Supergirl and the upcoming Superboy. Barry and Hal can’t compete with that.
Another problem with the theory that Dhaise poses is that it’s about what DC is “doing” with the character. Batman and Superman don’t really need to be promoted. Wonder Woman probably should be promoted, but again she’s both a name and a tough sell so she doesn’t need it/isn’t worth it.
Meanwhile Barry and Hal are/were relative clean slates. A creator has more liberty with them and their continuity (see both Rebirths.) That freedom allows for better stories (hopefully.) But they’re also second string characters, who could be promoted (in every sense.)
Yet another way to look at the trinity concept is in terms of impact and legacy. If you go by that you’re still left with Clark, Bruce and Diana in that order. Hal didn’t get a sidekick promoted full fledged hero, like Bruce, Diana and Barry did. Hal also isn’t a hero that other heroes look up to, like Clark. Nor is Hal up on a pedestal, in continuity, like Barry is. Using that, Hal’s in, at best, a distant fifth.
Basically, it all depends on how you define trinity.”
Now this goes into 3 posts of a little back and forth between these two. Dhaise replies:
“Barring legal escapades, Supes will probably remain in the Trinity. DC’s entire line now revolves around him. He’s got nothing on Batman though,who has numerous monthly appearances, strong thematic links, and mass market presence on movies and television, not to mention frequent toys. And while Superman is no slouch in these departments, the sheer batman output crushes him.
Diana has had ‘a movie idea’ thrown around for 15 years with not even a rough draft script. GL has a feature film due next summer. The flash is slated for the year after that. DC has mentioned a Superman reboot coming down the pipe. Batman’s third movie in the reboot series is a no brainer.
If Diana is so pivotal and important to the DCU, why do people seem to have such problems with her when it comes to a project? No Batman movie is going 15 years without a script.”
And then Mathan again:
“And it goes down to the source material. Out of the Trinity, her Post Crisis reboot was the most drastic, in every sense. Her continuity is muddled and in a pop culture sense post people remember her from the tv show.
Wonder Woman also doesn’t have the clearest origin, which is essentially what super hero pics are about.
Factor in trying to figure out the target audience (women? fanboys? teenagers?) and the Hollywood trainwreck becomes even more understanding.
Again, The Flash and GL are easier to promote and put on the fast track, because there’s less of a pop culture awareness about them. It’s true for the comics and it’s equally true for Hollywood.”
And then the final post on the topic so far again from Dhaise:
“Her post crisis life was the most drastic, but from a source material pitch, she’s an easier sell to hollywood then superman.
“Female Action Lead” is a difficult sell compared to male, but it’s not a deal breaker. Fantasy sells well, and even better in the last 10 years, so the mythology thing doesn’t work against her in Hollywood. Super Heroes are in an upswing over the past 8 years.
If Wonder Woman was so important to DC, she’d be used,promoted,and exploited just like Superman and Batman are, and Green Lantern and Flash currently are. And she isn’t. Even Green Arrow has more buzz then Diana.
In todays climate, hollywood is scared of spending big money when the risk is too high. James bond just lost a third film because of ‘concerns’. A concept shopped around for `15+ years that has never had so much as a 10 page script doesn’t instill confidence in anybody. Batman Begins had at least 2 drafts before it was shopped around. How serious is DC about having a media presence for their ‘third trinity’ member?”
I really hope we get some more responses for this thread because it sure is a good read and I would love to see some more opinions on the matter. The whoe thread can be found here but you have already read most of it.
Now let me step out of the comics forum just a bit. There has been a ton of talk about what everyone is expecting for the upcoming Avengers movie. Some people agree on what we should see or want to see but the reality is as of right now we have no idea. It’s fun to make guesses though. Check out the thread here:
Wow…looking at this thread I can’t believe I had the 1st rumor posted back in 2008. Plus I had forgotten that it started off as mostly Captain America news but has now turned into our place to talk about the upcoming Avengers movie. Okay and now lastly Mathan has been toying with an idea for the forums for awhile now called The Exchange Program. I don’t want to step on his toes in case he chooses to maybe write something up himself but basically it is us forum people exchanging comics we love with each other. So maybe we can give someone who has never read Preacher for an example copies of the series so they can experience it and love it as much as I…I mean we all do. So check that thread out here:
Well that’s it for another week. Maybe we can have a part 2 for the Trinity topic next week. Now go check out the forums where at some point we will be discussing which title wins for the most amout of issues where nothing happens. So far in the running is Brightest Day and Generation Lost.
Tags: Batman, Clark Kent (Superman), DC Comics, DCU, Flash (Barry Allen), Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Wonder Woman