DC Rebirth / Marvel Legacy Bonus Roundtable! Renumbering, Comics Events & Much More

This week, while doing our usual Pull List Roundtable, a few other topics came up.   So we decided to collect and share them!  Enjoy!

John Babos: James, don’t be fooled! Secret Empire isn’t really 10 issues, but 13 issues.

There was the zero issue, the FCBD issue and Secret Empire Omega #1 follows Secret Empire #10. So, one more issue to go technically after Secret Empire #10, mon ami.

That doesn’t count all the Generations one-shots that seem to spring out of issue #10’s Vanishing Point usage plus, perhaps, Marvel Legacy #1 as the true end to the Captain Nazi saga?

James Fulton: Marvel events never end. They just change names. This is Civil Invasion Siege Itself Axis Secret War Empire #89. How’s that for Legacy numbering?

Babos: I wonder if the Legacy numbering will be double counted in some instances?

That said, I’m genuinely interested in Marvel Legacy #1 and hope Marvel can turn this all around. Not sure how Marvel went from TV based seasonal approach to justify every year and half relaunches with #1’s to now doubling down on legacy numbering (that Marvel had deemed inaccessible and a barrier for new readers). Yet, 99% of the Legacy series continue old series.

Really intrigued about Avengers 1,000,000 BC who we saw a glimpse of Generations: Thors #1, but who are a key part of Marvel Legacy #1.

Mike Maillaro: Between Cap 25 and Secret Empire 8, it seemed like a Marvel is taking a more hopeful heroic direction. And I have loved the Generations book. Definitely cautiously optimistic. But I am no where down on Marvel as a lot of people. Still makes up the majority of my pull list and favorite books. And sure more coherent than DC Metal.

Babos: The X-books and Spider-Man books are ok, but all the Captain Nazi and Avengers books seem incoherent at best. I’m not optimistic about Cap’s fate from SE #9. I sure hope Legacy Captain America / Steve Rogers is the real deal and not Kobik’s cosmic cube memory of him (b/c that is more coherent than Metal, Mike? 😉 )

Matt Graham: My stance on Marvel is the same. I’m in it for X-Men out of pure nostalgic loyalty and I read the rest if I find the books interesting or want to support Marvel doing things outside of Civil Invasion Siege Itself Axis Secret War Empire. Spider-Gwen is the best Spider-Man book Marvel is putting out if you just want a young person balancing power and responsibility and soap opera – the Spider-Man I always turn to. Edge of Venomverse has been fun and even takes the mickey on core Marvel at times. Daredevil and Hulk (Jen’s book) still push the whole real people drama but with superpowers to deal with it that Marvel built its foundation on with the original F4 and X-Men.

Past that? I made the effort to hang on and keep with Marvel, and my reward was Original Sin and Civil War 2. I have not glanced at Secret Empire beyond the lead up and tie-ins that made me.

I’m not down on it, it’s just not something about Marvel that interests me, same as I follow Batman and Wonder Woman but don’t read Lantern titles. I’m an X-Men and Spider-Man fan, and the Avengers were always less interesting to me even as a kid. As you say John, it doesn’t help that the books haven’t been coherent, at least if you don’t want to spend across all the tie-ins.

All that said, like a sucker, I do buy into all of their “fresh start” pitches. Almost every year. ResurrXion started out okay and managed to hit good to great for most titles, and the little I’ve seen of Legacy and reading Generations, I think that Marvel looks like it finally has a footing on what made their characters (not franchises) interesting and worth investing in after years of willful ignorance (X-Men vs Inhumans?) and not missing the point.

On the other hand, this is bleeding right from Secret Empire and Generations seems to take place out of #10 or to the side? Maybe they learned nothing except, “Hey, this guy is still buying Daredevil, Hawkeye, and Wolverine. Let’s come up with a crossover.”

One thing I am down on Marvel/RessurXion for is the Weapon H story. You throw in a mandatory crossover right out of the first of your new Weapon X book? What the hell is that? I’m sure any book with an X and claws sells more than Totally Awesome Hulk, and the story itself is neat, but right from the first issue? That’s a horrible “reset” to gaining and regaining readers, at least to hear my comic shop regulars tell it.

Also, I’m not sure if it’s a generational thing with the new binging content perspective, but I never found the old numbering to be off-putting. I came in at X-Men #240 something with my own money. I was young and didn’t know much of the history, but the recaps were capable and the current action in the issues at hand was enough to keep me coming back. And then I learned for myself what some of these past stories were. That’s part of the hobby.

Meanwhile, when I recommend Captain Marvel to friends who want to read her because they like Brie Larson, or they just want more beyond what the movies turned them onto, there are 4 Volume 1s, 3 of them by Kelly Sue DeConnick. Instead of a simple recommendation, I have to do an in-depth advisory on what they’re looking to buy. It shouldn’t be that complicated, Marvel. Legacy numbering is better than seasonal volumes.

Maillaro:  Waid has been garbage on Avengers and Champions, but I love Ultimates and US Avengers. Al Ewing is one of my favorites. And the Captain America books have been great for me.

Metal just feels like “hey, you know how people complain about Batman being the most important DC character…let’s make BATMAN as a concept the center of not only the multiverse but multi multiverses.” Bat Gods, Dark Multiverse, Nth Metal (and other metals) being the key to everything (not to mention the meta/metal “typo”). It just feels so blah to me.

And I honestly don’t care too much about comic numbering. Issue 1, Issue 10, Issue 100, Issue 1000, it’s all just a number to me. I think they should do like magazines and put month/year real clear on cover instead of worrying about numbers so much.

Babos: Matt, I agree with your “part of the hobby” view about what to do about issues prior to you joining a book later in its run. I used to love going to comics cons to check books off my want lists. I don’t need to do that as much now, but the new tpbs or HCs of old material is worth it some times for paper quality and the recolouring.

Mike, re: Metal, like with all #1’s I read I give the writer a bit of pass to establish all they need to for their run. I’ll have a better sense of whether Metal will work for me as a mini after I read #2. So far, the ending to issue #1 has me intrigued including Daniel’s connection to GA Hawkman.

Maillaro: I do think there is cool stuff in Metal, especial Daniel, just a lot of weirdness too.

I also think DC needs to start moving forward on some answers. We got a lot of great teases in DC Rebirth #1. Watchmen tie-in, three Jokers, etc etc. But that was last May, and we’ve gotten far more questions than answers.

Babos: In terms of Legacy, the word has been it is a stop gap to something more consequential in early/mid 2018. That is why there next to no “net new” books pre and post Legacy. Still curious what big internet-breaking reveal to end Legacy #1 will be? Marvel EIC did say the dead are rising. So, Wolverine back perhaps? I can’t imagine Old Man Logan last indefinitely. Any other expected resurrections?

While Dark Matter seems interesting yet rumors are th top artists are on for all 3 issues. I think some Dark Matter could succeed not just on strength o artist / creative team, but using a recognizable DC jumping off point to tell something new, e.g. Immortal Men.

Fulton: My approach is always to buy for creators at full price, and characters I like at half price at sales or shows. Marvel got me excited about an Inhumans origin miniseries by giving it to Christopher Priest. Moon Knight, a character I love, is coming back again, but with a writer I feel no kind of way about so I’ll probably skip it.

I end up getting roped into Marvel events more than I do DC, but I’d rather read corporate Nick Spencer than corporate Scott Snyder. At Image those two are equal in my mind.

And Matt – you never told me Edge of Venomverse is drawn by James Stokoe this week – I need to track that down now.

Penny Marie Sautereau: …honestly issue numbering really hasn’t meant all that much for over two decades. It’s kind of an arbitrary thing these days, a holdover from older times.

Graham: James,It’s Deadpool as Venom, so it’s sort of like a monkey’s paw wish for you.

If Wolverine is back, you give me nightmares that Tom Taylor’s excellent All-New Wolverine run will be erased. This is because Cable #150 has shown her to be in the new “X-Force” roster…as the younger, feral X-23 (Time travel roster!) we just spent 7 years developing with Marjorie Liu and Taylor. As the world’s foremost Laura Kinney authority – Please, no. Mahvel, bay-bee.

Speaking of Cable, I can’t help but feel a little jaded knowing Robinson took Cable just to fill out 5 issues so Ed Brisson’s Legacy renumber is a nice round #150.

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